Home » Discussion Forums » Blog Post Discussion » Rats, ratbags and singing
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19399 is a reply to message #19392 ] |
Wed, 12 August 2009 20:45   |
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| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:31 |
Are you kidding? Otters ARE mean. I, er, mean, this is all relative, but all these things have *teeth* and protective/territorial impulses, and you want to LEAVE THEM ALONE. Kids getting bitten by otters is actually a *problem* over here: parents are STUPID and then they want someone to get rid of the OTTERS. Because they're, you know, mean.
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I had no idea! They always seemed like goofy water ferrets to me. Wow!
Okay, well, I did see another thing on PLANET EARTH where an alligator tried to kidnap an otter from its family, and the entire gang started yelling at him until they scared him off. All 15 of them. But they looked cute the whole time. (Granted, I also think snow leopards are cute, wolves, and most other furry things. I'm willing to admit I don't have a straight head about this. *g*)
Smooshes!
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19400 is a reply to message #19394 ] |
Wed, 12 August 2009 20:58 |
 sixpence
Messages: 49
Registered: August 2009 |
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Raccoons just eat the house. And keep you awake all night with their gymnastics and family fights RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD.
The absolutely worst night I have had (so far...touch wood..) was when i got back from some time away and found that my attic had been colonized. And the nice pest remover reassured me that he didn't kill them he just released them.
I had visions of him returning to his release area several days later to distribute business fliers! At that moment my idea of a good raccoon was a fur coat! And muff, And hood.
sixpence
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19402 is a reply to message #19331 ] |
Wed, 12 August 2009 21:57 |
skating librarian
Messages: 570
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I once had a cousin from Louisiana describe the pygmy rattlesnakes in her backyard .. and she then admitted that she was more scared of raccoons. (not me, I'd much rather deal with pesky, raucous mammals than poisonous reptiles)
Hey Robin, the biologists have discovered that Eastern coyotes have genes from timber wolves ... which explains why they are so much more handsome than the western ones, and more dangerous around sheep. Cool hunh?
"Winning a war is like winning an earthquake" Jeanette Rankin
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19404 is a reply to message #19383 ] |
Wed, 12 August 2009 22:07 |
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blondviolinist
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Registered: October 2008
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| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:13 |
I have no brain tonight or I could probably come up with a few examples on both sides of the fence as *I* ballpeen it into the ground.  But Radio Three, for example, has the grotesque habit of playing JAZZ versions of classical works which makes me want to take their licenses away and sentence them to plastic recorders for the rest of their lives.
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Eww. Ick. That would make me turn off the radio in a hurry!
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So recommend me somewhere TO listen to L'homme arme. The only thing I could find hastily following your link was a tiny clip by someone who's recorded one of them.
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Oh, yeah, that might be helpful. ::blushes:: I don't know how many of these will work in the UK.
Okhegehm L'homme arme Track 4 is just the original song. The Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei are the five mass movements. (Don't ask me why they plopped Immeittet Angelus Domini in the middle of the mass.)
Dufay Kyrie from Missa L'homme arme
Josquin L'homme arme
Pierre de la Rue Gloria from Missa L'homme arme
Palestrina Kyrie from Missa L'homme arme
"Purity of heart is to will one thing." Kirkegaard
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19408 is a reply to message #19392 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 00:24 |
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Black Bear
Messages: 3216
Registered: September 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA |
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| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:31 |
Are you kidding? Otters ARE mean. I, er, mean, this is all relative, but all these things have *teeth* and protective/territorial impulses, and you want to LEAVE THEM ALONE. Kids getting bitten by otters is actually a *problem* over here: parents are STUPID and then they want someone to get rid of the OTTERS. Because they're, you know, mean.
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Oh yes--I'd never say otters or wolverines or coyotes couldn't be dangerous. No wild animal is "safe," per se. Well, maybe box turtles. I just generally oppose the use of the word "mean" in describing a whole species of animal. Not that I haven't known some ornery critters in my time, mind you! But that's on a case by case basis.
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19413 is a reply to message #19385 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 01:53 |
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L.R.K.
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| Robin wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 02:20 |
I think Edwin Drood has more problems than just whodunnit. I think it was due a whole rewrite from page one. I admit I read it a LONG time ago and my memory is vague (my memory is ALWAYS vague) but I did come away from it thinking that it wasn't just the end that was unfinished.
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I re-read it relatively recently - two-three years ago, I think. It didn't occur to me, but I see what you mean. But did he ever re-write anything? Thinking about it now, I'd imagine he would be bored with re-writing - I'd think he'd be the sort who would want to be off to the next, new fresh idea. Of course, I don't really know much about the man, save from his writing, so I don't quite know what I base this idea on.
Anyway, I felt the story barely got going. I've seen mention of this being half the novel - theories about new characters being old characters in disguise because he wouldn't introduce new characters half-way into the story. (Wouldn't he? I'm not so sure of that, at all.)
Does anyone actually know how long it was meant to be? Because my personal feeling was that this isn't half-way - but rather a quarter into the story. It didn't seem like we'd got further than the introductory stage. Quite apart from the fact that there isn't an ending - it all felt so - well - unfinished...
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19415 is a reply to message #19374 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 02:17 |
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Diane in MN
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| Erika in Colorado wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 16:50 |
You know, the scary night dumpster animal that I hate is the raccoon. They seem so cute, but meet one getting their midnight snack, and that's no longer true. At a four-plex I used to live in years ago, we had many wild animals because we were near a creek and nature park; there were foxes, coyotes, feral cats, and raccoons; the coyotes were cute and sweet compared to the raccoons.
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Raccoons are large and have big teeth and give one h**l of a bite and are a significant rabies vector. We have them around here but thankfully rarely see them alive. (We see lots of them as roadkill.) They are cute, on film, but people who encourage them are nuts.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19416 is a reply to message #19399 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 02:21 |
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L.R.K.
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Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
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| jmeadows wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 02:45 |
| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:31 |
Are you kidding? Otters ARE mean. I, er, mean, this is all relative, but all these things have *teeth* and protective/territorial impulses, and you want to LEAVE THEM ALONE. Kids getting bitten by otters is actually a *problem* over here: parents are STUPID and then they want someone to get rid of the OTTERS. Because they're, you know, mean.
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I had no idea! They always seemed like goofy water ferrets to me. Wow!
Okay, well, I did see another thing on PLANET EARTH where an alligator tried to kidnap an otter from its family, and the entire gang started yelling at him until they scared him off. All 15 of them. But they looked cute the whole time. (Granted, I also think snow leopards are cute, wolves, and most other furry things. I'm willing to admit I don't have a straight head about this. *g*)
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Neither do I! I think they are terribly cute! And tigers - I adore tigers! And ice-bears and...
But if I was an otter and somebody tried to pet me, I'd bite them too!
There are some really stupid people in this world. I saw a documentary once, where people went fishing in remote areas where there were crocodiles in spite of the fact that there were boards and signs all over the place warning them... well, having wild-life invade your living-space in one thing, but if these people got chased by crocodiles, I thought they deserved it. But what happened? The crocodiles were moved! Now I'm not a crocodile-fan (I'm more for the cute and furry), but I thought this was horribly unfair. All they had done, was to be crocodiles.
And - well, I hesitate to say this since, well... There's that story of a woman who went clambering all over the rocks at a zoo-enclosure, just to get good photographs... and fell in. With the ice-bears.
[Updated on: Thu, 13 August 2009 02:29]
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19417 is a reply to message #19392 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 02:28 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2729
Registered: October 2008
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| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 19:31 |
Are you kidding? Otters ARE mean. I, er, mean, this is all relative, but all these things have *teeth* and protective/territorial impulses, and you want to LEAVE THEM ALONE. Kids getting bitten by otters is actually a *problem* over here: parents are STUPID and then they want someone to get rid of the OTTERS. Because they're, you know, mean.
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Many years ago, I trained my dog with someone who had German Shepherds. That was around the time they were being replaced as the macho dog of choice by Dobermans, but they still had a reputation, and people would ask, "Do your dogs bite?" Her answer, a very good one, was "Well, they have teeth." Critters have teeth to bite with. Otters are pretty good-sized critters and have teeth for a reason. What kind of idiot would let their child attempt to play with a wild (I assume) otter anyway? Yeesh.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19420 is a reply to message #19416 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 04:00 |
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| L.R.K. wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 02:21 |
There are some really stupid people in this world. I saw a documentary once, where people went fishing in remote areas where there were crocodiles in spite of the fact that there were boards and signs all over the place warning them... well, having wild-life invade your living-space in one thing, but if these people got chased by crocodiles, I thought they deserved it. But what happened? The crocodiles were moved! Now I'm not a crocodile-fan (I'm more for the cute and furry), but I thought this was horribly unfair. All they had done, was to be crocodiles.
And - well, I hesitate to say this since, well... There's that story of a woman who went clambering all over the rocks at a zoo-enclosure, just to get good photographs... and fell in. With the ice-bears.
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Humans are some crazy. I'm on the animals' side about this.
Smooshes!
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19422 is a reply to message #19331 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 08:21 |
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Black Bear
Messages: 3216
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Drood: I completely agree, what we've got here is a first draft of something that wasn't his best novel to begin with. But I still quite like a lot of the characters, like nearly all Dickens stories the cast list is fascinating. And it's interesting to watch his set-up for this "mystery" even in first-draft protoform.
Critters: I think the key is that wild animals are wild, and they do what they do for a reason. Raccoons, bats, and squirrels get in my attic because that's a suitable habitat for 'em, and if I don't want them there (which I don't) it's my job to make my house secure against them. Any animal will bite if you get it cornered, or make it feel threatened, or try to pick it up. I have far better interactions with wild animals, whose behavior is predictable once you know something about them, than I do with stray domestic animals--you never know what kind of emotional baggage a feral dog or cat is carrying about humans, and that changes the whole equation.
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19430 is a reply to message #19360 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 12:31 |
NotLonely
Messages: 164
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[quote title=scarhandpiper wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 12:10]Black Bear wrote on Tue, 11 August 2009 17:42
They were even moderate-sized rats in my case. But the fact that they obviously were not even slightly afraid of me gave me the willies. You EXPECT a wild animal to find humans at least a little off-putting.
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They know they have us outnumbered. They're just biding their time . . .
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I heard a snippet on our news recently that a 7.5 kg rat was found recently in some harbour. The traumatic amnesia resulting from trying to imagine such a beastie prevents me from remembering any more details than that.
Life always, always finds a way.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19431 is a reply to message #19408 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 12:34 |
NotLonely
Messages: 164
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| Black Bear wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 06:24 |
| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:31 |
Are you kidding? Otters ARE mean. I, er, mean, this is all relative, but all these things have *teeth* and protective/territorial impulses, and you want to LEAVE THEM ALONE. Kids getting bitten by otters is actually a *problem* over here: parents are STUPID and then they want someone to get rid of the OTTERS. Because they're, you know, mean.
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Oh yes--I'd never say otters or wolverines or coyotes couldn't be dangerous. No wild animal is "safe," per se. Well, maybe box turtles. I just generally oppose the use of the word "mean" in describing a whole species of animal. Not that I haven't known some ornery critters in my time, mind you! But that's on a case by case basis.
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We have snakes and leopard and cheetahs in the mountains around here. The animals that give me the shivering whim-whams, though, are the baboons.
Stupidity: the only substance in infinite supply. And it's so dense that it draws all around it unto its own level... We've had people *getting out of the car* to look at an elephant calf... and then getting all upset because Mommy Elephant got upset. Sheesh.
One thing we humans never seem to get our minds around is that we do Not have Dominion Over All. After all, mosquitoes are higher in the food chain than we are... <g>
Life always, always finds a way.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19432 is a reply to message #19404 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 12:40 |
NotLonely
Messages: 164
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| blondviolinist wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 04:07 |
| Robin wrote on Wed, 12 August 2009 20:13 |
I have no brain tonight or I could probably come up with a few examples on both sides of the fence as *I* ballpeen it into the ground. But Radio Three, for example, has the grotesque habit of playing JAZZ versions of classical works which makes me want to take their licenses away and sentence them to plastic recorders for the rest of their lives.
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Eww. Ick. That would make me turn off the radio in a hurry!
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[/quote]
If it's like most of what they nowadays call "fusion" *ptooey* yes.
But some of it is brilliant. The Jaques Loussier Trio, for example, does awesome things with Bach wile maintaining the clear lines and contrapuntal style. You have to be *really* good to arrange music properly, or it sounds - yes, about as good as plastic recorders <g>
It works the other way around, too. The Doors Concerto with Nigel Kennedy is one of the few 'rock-to-classical' translations I can bear to listen to without feeling like I've been drowned in toffee. Or Oros. Ick indeed.
Of course, I am guilty myself. But *no-one* hears what I do except myself and my poor battered PC. It will stay that way.
Life always, always finds a way.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19435 is a reply to message #19431 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 16:09 |
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Black Bear
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Right on, NotLonely--when I was in Kenya, the baboons were something to avoid at all costs. And I had a fairly startling encounter once with a vervet monkey who accosted me as I was walking toward my hotel room, eating a Snickers bar. It went something like this:
Me, seeing monkey approaching cautiously: Hello Monkey.... Snickers bars are not monkey food!
Monkey, suddenly rushing forward and grabbing my pant leg: EEP.
Me, not moving a muscle: I'm sorry, I was mistaken, please take this candy and my apologies! *drops Snickers*
Monkey: EEP. (translation: "You got that right, jerkface.") *grabs candy and strolls off*
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19441 is a reply to message #19422 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 18:29 |
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Robin
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And about rewrites, of course, an awful lot of Dickens was published by serial instalment, so he was writing them as his periodical deadlines rolled in. This is one of the reasons some of his cliffhangers are *quite* so cliffhangery . . . and then turn out to be false alarms in the next instalment. (Esther goes blind with smallpox, as I recall, and then next chapter . . . isn't.)
I also agree about wild as opposed to gone-feral or half-tame animals. Wild ones, you leave 'em alone--this includes not getting too close to dens with kits in, which can be something of a problem with urban foxes, for example--they leave you alone. Ones that have known the worst of people, well . . .
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19453 is a reply to message #19438 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 21:41 |
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Black Bear
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| Robin wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 18:23 |
Ah well. I absolutely agree with you--they have sharp teeth, they carry rabies, and they are generally unnervingly fearless around people--but I've known some nice and funny ones. ( . . . and I have a cousin who raises orphans, she says in a very small voice . . . )
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I used to hand-feed a raccoon that hung around my parents' house when I was a kid. It's certainly not the sort of thing I'd ever do on impulse, with any wild animal--it took the better part of a summer to get to the point of feeling that this particular raccoon had a pleasant enough temperament to try it. But it was an experience that cemented my love of (and respect for) all types of wildlife at an early age. I've done some wildlife rescue, though never orphan raccoons--I don't have the right permits, though I sometimes think of looking into it. But I still keep a cardboard box, a blanket, and heavy gloves in my car at all times in case of emergency. Hooray for your cousin, it's often a thankless job!
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19457 is a reply to message #19442 ] |
Thu, 13 August 2009 22:39 |
sixpence
Messages: 49
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Two days ago one wandered into an office building. It was safely tranked and removed)
sixpence
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19459 is a reply to message #19438 ] |
Fri, 14 August 2009 03:48 |
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Diane in MN
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Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
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| Robin wrote on Thu, 13 August 2009 17:23 |
Ah well. I absolutely agree with you--they have sharp teeth, they carry rabies, and they are generally unnervingly fearless around people--but I've known some nice and funny ones. ( . . . and I have a cousin who raises orphans, she says in a very small voice . . . )
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Good for your cousin! He or she must be tolerant as well as kind, because I can only imagine the fun a raccoon could find in a house if it got loose . . . Wild ones are another kettle of fish, though. They are absolutely welcome to their share of the swamp, but I make sure there's nothing attractive inside the fence or anywhere close to the house. I would not be a happy camper if I took a dog out in the wee hours and encountered a 50-pound raccoon.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19463 is a reply to message #19331 ] |
Fri, 14 August 2009 05:26 |
judith
Messages: 246
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And now he’s on holiday next week and I will be utterly without musical guidance since Oisin is gone for three weeks. What will I do with myself?
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I just started a book that you might enjoy. It's called "Tunesmith", by Jimmy Webb, the guy who wrote a bunch of famous hits from the '60s and later, such as "Up, Up and Away", "Galveston", "MacArthur Park", "Wichita Lineman", "By the Time I Get to Phoenix", etc. Essentially, it's his distilled wisdom on songwriting. I'm not into pop music, but Webb's songs are -- different. They stay with me. They have delightful harmonic progressions, soaring melodies -- they are VERY well crafted. Just the beginning of the book has been fascinating. You might like it too, as well as the many other musical folk here.
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| Re: Rats, ratbags and singing [message #19466 is a reply to message #19463 ] |
Fri, 14 August 2009 08:31 |
NotLonely
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2008
Location: SA |
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| judith wrote on Fri, 14 August 2009 11:26 |
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And now he’s on holiday next week and I will be utterly without musical guidance since Oisin is gone for three weeks. What will I do with myself?
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I just started a book that you might enjoy. It's called "Tunesmith", by Jimmy Webb, the guy who wrote a bunch of famous hits from the '60s and later, such as "Up, Up and Away", "Galveston", "MacArthur Park", "Wichita Lineman", "By the Time I Get to Phoenix", etc. Essentially, it's his distilled wisdom on songwriting. I'm not into pop music, but Webb's songs are -- different. They stay with me. They have delightful harmonic progressions, soaring melodies -- they are VERY well crafted. Just the beginning of the book has been fascinating. You might like it too, as well as the many other musical folk here.
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One word. Oooooh!
Life always, always finds a way.
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