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| It's... [message #44343] |
Wed, 17 August 2011 20:22  |
b_twin_1 Messages: 2620 Registered: September 2008 Location: Victoria, Australia |
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Hellhounds' Birthday!
I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel ~ Blackadder
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| Re: It's... [message #44346 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Wed, 17 August 2011 21:31   |
skating librarian Messages: 576 Registered: October 2008 Location: Vermont |
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Those eyes ... to me Darkness seems to be saying "What's on your mind boss?"
while Chaos seems to say "Adore me, I'm so graceful."
Whatever, happy birthday to them both, and hoping you had your champagne or chocolate in celebration too.
"Winning a war is like winning an earthquake" Jeanette Rankin
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| Re: It's... [message #44351 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Wed, 17 August 2011 22:28   |
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Maren Messages: 1341 Registered: October 2008 Location: Louisiana |
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Happy birthday boys!!!!
I was just wondering this morning what sort of research has been done on dogs' ability (and other animals' too, I'm sure) to anticipate that some exciting event will happen after a much more mundane one*, like with Chaos and the computer. Every morning, Lola silently appears in the hallway while I'm drying my hair because right after that we have breakfast. She knows the end-of-the-news music is followed by a walk. And just recently, after living with me for about 4 years, she's started going to bed when she hears me brushing my teeth. Maybe it's nothing more than simple conditioning, but it just seems like more than that to me. At the very least, they're paying attention to way more than I think many humans give them credit for.
*Editing to clarify that I DO know Pavlov, which would be the obvious one here. But in that case I think the conditioning was simultaneous--the bell rang while the dog was eating. This is anticipatory.
[Updated on: Wed, 17 August 2011 22:36]
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| Re: It's... [message #44355 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 00:19   |
EMoon Messages: 669 Registered: March 2009 |
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Such beautiful hellhounds...and the expressions melt me.
E
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| Re: It's... [message #44358 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 01:40   |
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equus_peduus Messages: 437 Registered: September 2009 Location: France |
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Happy birthday to two very adorable, beautiful dogs 
I expect there is research on animals' ability to anticipate. Veterinary behaviorists (and even some of us less-able veterinarians who have a little smidgen of behavior training) use it all the time - the classic being the separation anxiety dog (the true panic-when-left-alone dog, not just the dog who's worried when by himself, though it can progress). Among other steps taken to try to get the dog to a state they can learn to be by themselves, one attempts to desensitize the dog to the signals it's learned that it is going to be by itself. This is because, if you know what to watch for, the dog will start showing signs of anxiety before it's actually alone. Most people have some sort of routine prior to leaving - this may include things like taking shower, getting dressed, doing makeup, finding shoes, picking up purse, picking up keys, finding sunglasses, etc. Some dogs "know" when their person isn't leaving, even though the person thinks their routine is pretty much the same... but when deconstructed, it's not (for example, time spent on makeup or hair, or which shoes are selected).
Mostly this just tells you what keen observers many animals are (the horse that learns which truck is the vet's, even though the vet only comes twice a year... the cat who knows which person is the vet even if not wearing the white coat... what time breakfast is supposed to be... the chinchilla who knows that I haven't let him out for playtime after the cats eat like I usually do... etc). They watch our body language, our actions, our routines. Some animals do very poorly when those routines are interrupted (cats with feline interstitial cystitis, for example), and some animals are infinitely adaptable. If you do something enough times, they learn what's going to happen - but if you want to *teach* (or train) them, you have to figure out what motivates them in order to get them to repeat the behavior. Sometimes this is easier than others... dogs are typically considered easier to train than cats because dogs typically respond to something like food or a toy more consistently than cats. But if you figure out how to motivate your cat, it's trainable too.
Personalities are also very interesting. I've got a litter of foster kittens that are just at the age where they're developing personalities (anybody want a black kitten? ) - and it's quite fun watching them learn to interact with each other and their environment, and how they react. They are all presumably from the same litter but they're all demonstrably different from each other, even at this early stage.
Animal behavior and veterinary behavior are fascinating topics. I always find it interesting to hear about different peoples' experiences with animals and what they can learn to do - sometimes unintentionally taught.
I think I've rambled on quite long enough now...
[Updated on: Thu, 18 August 2011 01:42]
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| Re: It's... [message #44359 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 04:31   |
Susan in Melbourne Messages: 184 Registered: October 2008 Location: Melbourne |
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But he’s the one who figured out that the sound of the computer being turned off means I’m about to move, for example.
Our cats' bed is on a shelf in the laundry, and the laundry door is directly opposite our bedroom door. When my husband gets up - flings back the doona, puts on slippers and dressing-gown etc, there is not a whisker moving in the laundry. The minute I fling back the doona on my side of the bed, I hear the thump of furry paws hitting the laundry floor before I've even got my feet out of bed. And it doesn't matter who gets up first - the cats only stir when they hear the doona on my side of the bed. Very nuanced hearing, cats.
So, guess who feeds the animals in our house......
PS - happy birthday, hellhounds!
[Updated on: Thu, 18 August 2011 04:32]
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| Re: It's... [message #44361 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 09:08   |
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HELLHOUNDS!!!
*swoon* They are such handsome boys.
Smooshes!
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| Re: It's... [message #44368 is a reply to message #44362 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 14:03   |
CathyR Messages: 577 Registered: July 2009 Location: NW England |
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I think Southdowner uses this clicker method for her dog training.
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: It's... [message #44371 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 19:08   |
RidingWestward Messages: 9 Registered: August 2011 Location: Libraries, Bookstores, an... |
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Happy Birthday, Hellhounds!
I have to say, though, it's encouraging to hear from someone else whose dog(s) are difficult to train. We brought home a basset almost a year ago, and ohmygoodness, the fellow is stubborn. Growing up, my family only had labs and, say what you will about the breed in general, ours were characterized by the overwhelming need to please their people. They were easy to train because they desperately wanted us to be happy with them. Byron on the other hand... he wants what he wants, and it often doesn't coincide with what his people want. And while he's not fast (thank goodness), he's absurdly *strong*. It makes for interesting days.
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| Re: It's... [message #44373 is a reply to message #44371 ] |
Thu, 18 August 2011 20:03   |
Aaron Messages: 319 Registered: June 2009 Location: California |
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| RidingWestward wrote on Thu, 18 August 2011 16:08 | Happy Birthday, Hellhounds!
I have to say, though, it's encouraging to hear from someone else whose dog(s) are difficult to train. We brought home a basset almost a year ago, and ohmygoodness, the fellow is stubborn. Growing up, my family only had labs and, say what you will about the breed in general, ours were characterized by the overwhelming need to please their people. They were easy to train because they desperately wanted us to be happy with them. Byron on the other hand... he wants what he wants, and it often doesn't coincide with what his people want. And while he's not fast (thank goodness), he's absurdly *strong*. It makes for interesting days.
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I have been told that bassets and the like have a more scent dominated view of the world* that is more alien** to humans and that humans play a smaller part in it.
*Almost certainly true
**Than the admittedly alien view of other dogs
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| Re: It's... [message #44376 is a reply to message #44371 ] |
Fri, 19 August 2011 08:16   |
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Stardancer Messages: 186 Registered: April 2011 Location: Florida, USA |
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Happiest of (slightly belated) birthdays, hellhounds! and many happy returns of the day.
| RidingWestward wrote on Thu, 18 August 2011 19:08 | Happy Birthday, Hellhounds!
I have to say, though, it's encouraging to hear from someone else whose dog(s) are difficult to train. We brought home a basset almost a year ago, and ohmygoodness, the fellow is stubborn. Growing up, my family only had labs and, say what you will about the breed in general, ours were characterized by the overwhelming need to please their people. They were easy to train because they desperately wanted us to be happy with them. Byron on the other hand... he wants what he wants, and it often doesn't coincide with what his people want. And while he's not fast (thank goodness), he's absurdly *strong*. It makes for interesting days.
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The first Byron was also a stubborn, opinionated being. Perhaps the dog is channeling something
[Updated on: Fri, 19 August 2011 08:17]
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| Re: It's... [message #44395 is a reply to message #44343 ] |
Sun, 21 August 2011 01:27   |
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danceswithpahis Messages: 382 Registered: October 2008 |
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Happy (slightly belated) birthday to the hellhounds. They ATE!! How wonderful and exciting!! And I agree with what everyone else said about how handsome they look. What lovely dogs. Here's to many more years for them.
I've noticed the attention to small details with my cats as well. My favorite is that I refuse to let them in if they're scratching at the door before I get up (I live in a 2 room apt, and they sleep in the living room). After trying this for awhile in vain, they figured out how to tell when they'll actually get results, so they only scratch after my alarm has gone off. They usually even wait for the snooze (I almost always stay in bed until the second round). The only exception to this is that occasionally if it's one of my 2 days a month when I get to sleep in, they sometimes scratch a couple of hours after my normal wake-up time, as if to say, "Come ON; we've been patient, but this is a bit much!"
(BTW, on the subject of clicker training, I've tried to do that with them but failed because none of the many kinds of kitty treats I've gotten them has been a hit. Any ideas on how to make it more of a success? I've heard that you should do it right before meal time or take away their food for awhile, but this isn't practical because I'm gone a lot of the day and so leave dry food out for them.)
"Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!"
-- Lilo ("Lilo and Stitch")
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| Re: It's... [message #44397 is a reply to message #44395 ] |
Sun, 21 August 2011 03:23   |
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equus_peduus Messages: 437 Registered: September 2009 Location: France |
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| danceswithpahis wrote on Sat, 20 August 2011 22:27 | (BTW, on the subject of clicker training, I've tried to do that with them but failed because none of the many kinds of kitty treats I've gotten them has been a hit. Any ideas on how to make it more of a success? I've heard that you should do it right before meal time or take away their food for awhile, but this isn't practical because I'm gone a lot of the day and so leave dry food out for them.)
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Cats don't need to eat all the time. I feed mine in 2 meals daily; right now it's dry food only. You could also get automatic feeders so that if you're not back for mealtime, they'll get fed anyway (this will also help for your sleeping-in-days). I have this one: http://www.petsafe.net/products/feed-and-water-systems/timed -feeders/5-meal-pet-feeder (x3, one for each cat... though one of them broke so I haven't been using them lately)
The cat who needed clicker training for physical therapy following hip surgery will work for pieces of deli turkey. Regular cat treats were not interesting enough. The food motivated cat clicker trained well with just kibble. The third cat will clicker train, if she's in the right mood for it; I haven't bothered trying to teach her much. Start simple (touch a target with nose - either a target on a stick, or your hand) and work your way up from there. Consistency is the biggest key in clicker training cats. The two trained cats will sit and beg more or less on command; I am working on teaching the physical-therapy-needing cat to stand up after a sit and should start teaching him other things but have been too lazy to work on it (he's got a few passive-on-my-end exercises that depend on how I have his feeding station set up and such as well). He won't work for his meals (the other one will) - he knows he's going to get it anyway, so he stands and stares at me and refuses to sit down, even for food. I've talked to a friend who used to be a dolphin trainer, and she said that some animals do that - they won't work for meals, but they'll work for treats. You just have to figure out what works for each individual.
[Updated on: Sun, 21 August 2011 03:23]
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| Re: It's... [message #44416 is a reply to message #44395 ] |
Sun, 21 August 2011 23:51   |
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Diane in MN Messages: 2756 Registered: October 2008 Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
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| danceswithpahis wrote on Sun, 21 August 2011 00:27 |
(BTW, on the subject of clicker training, I've tried to do that with them but failed because none of the many kinds of kitty treats I've gotten them has been a hit. Any ideas on how to make it more of a success? I've heard that you should do it right before meal time or take away their food for awhile, but this isn't practical because I'm gone a lot of the day and so leave dry food out for them.)
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Trying to use treats for training when critters are hungry can backfire if they're greedy, because they're so focused on getting the food that they don't settle down to doing the thing you want them to do. As equus-peduus says, you have to find the thing that is so interesting to them that they think doing what you want them to do is worth it, and you have to use that wonderful thing only when training. With some it's food, with some a toy, but it has to be very desirable and not generally on offer.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: It's... [message #44434 is a reply to message #44416 ] |
Tue, 23 August 2011 00:41  |
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danceswithpahis Messages: 382 Registered: October 2008 |
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| Diane in MN wrote on Sun, 21 August 2011 23:51 |
| danceswithpahis wrote on Sun, 21 August 2011 00:27 |
(BTW, on the subject of clicker training, I've tried to do that with them but failed because none of the many kinds of kitty treats I've gotten them has been a hit. Any ideas on how to make it more of a success? I've heard that you should do it right before meal time or take away their food for awhile, but this isn't practical because I'm gone a lot of the day and so leave dry food out for them.)
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Trying to use treats for training when critters are hungry can backfire if they're greedy, because they're so focused on getting the food that they don't settle down to doing the thing you want them to do. As equus-peduus says, you have to find the thing that is so interesting to them that they think doing what you want them to do is worth it, and you have to use that wonderful thing only when training. With some it's food, with some a toy, but it has to be very desirable and not generally on offer.
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Hmm, I hadn't thought of using a toy. Maybe I can go somewhere with that. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find something new and fun (or something old and fun that can sit in the closet for a few weeks until it becomes "new" again).
On the subject of having the best cats ever (which is really what I'm thinking most of the time when I think about my cats), I got home today and sat down on my couch for a little while (checking email maybe?). One of my cats came over and flopped down with his paws around my waist, where he sat hugging me and purring for a good 20 minutes before going to pounce on his sister.
"Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!"
-- Lilo ("Lilo and Stitch")
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