Home » Discussion Forums » Blog Post Discussion » One car, eight bells, and...
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39693 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 20:26   |
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 anne_d
Messages: 217
Registered: October 2008
Location: Orange County, California |
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Huzzah for Wolfgang!
I hit the part about clutching the pocket torch in your teeth, and had a sudden epiphany, or at least a small lightbulb over my head - what you need for hellhound hurtles after dark is one of those miners's hats with a lamp on the front. It'd have to be pink, of course, and sparkly, or perhaps covered in roses...
By the way, and for what it's worth, I like reading about what other people are doing, especially when it isn't something I can do or would dare to try.
"The creative urge can come out in any form: in embroidery, in... cooking, in painting, drawing and sculpture, in composing music, as well as in writing books and stories... the artist's inner satisfaction was probably much the same." ~ Agatha Christie
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39694 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 21:21 |
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I can only hope that when my 13-year-old Acura with 153,800 miles on it turns 16, it's only concern is new shocks. As it is, I'm half surprised I've never needed to take it in for anything more major than a clutch replacement.
And for the record, I enjoy reading the bell parts!^ I tried to read the Wikipedia entries on it once, and found that oddly more confusing than anything. Besides, it really is just like reading about magic; there comes a point where you just have to accept the vocabulary as it is, and eventually it'll all make a sort of sense. Like hearing "bob major" the first time and going, "Wow. I've never heard of that before and I have no idea what that means." But, obviously it's something tricky, and difficult, and to do with handbells, not big bells. And if I really can't figure it out, my god, it's not as if I don't have a massive online resource at my fingertips--not that those are often any more comprehensible, but still. YOUTUBE! Yes!
^Also never been able to understand the e-mailing to let someone know you were bored by something you read of theirs. If you're that bored, stop reading, skim, or move along. No one is holding a gun to your head telling you there'll be a pop quiz later.
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39696 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 22:55 |
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HeiQ
Messages: 78
Registered: February 2011
Location: Canada |
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When I read your stuff about bell ringing, I pretended like I knew what you were talking about, but it really was just pretense. After reading your blog for a few days, I realized that you talk about bell ringing quite often, so I thought that figuring out what it actually is might be a bit of a plus... I read some comments in the blog posts saying that method ringing is mathematical and uses various permutations and combinations, and that made some sense as I have a math degree. Then in tonight's post you suggested youtube, and I was like, "Duh!" Now I know ALL about bell ringing, and even have some idea of what bob major is, haha... Well, not quite, but I think I have a better idea now.
On a sidenote, I think I read somewhere that you hated maths in school... So how on earth did you end up doing something as mathematical as method ringing of church bells AND handbells? 
On another sidenote, I've started reading the blog in two windows, and now that I don't have to scroll up and down looking for my place, it is SO much easier to read without my brain going crazy, so thank you again to whoever suggested it!
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39697 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 23:07 |
jjmcgaffey
Messages: 54
Registered: September 2010
Location: Alameda, CA |
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Actually - I roped in one (blog) reader _because_ of the bells. I still don't know if she reads your books - she likes manga, I know - but she rings bells, both tower and hand. I pointed her at one of your interviews in which you spent some time discussing bells, then suggested she might enjoy your blog as well. She's told me she reads it.
I find the discussions of bells fascinating if opaque. Yes, it does feel a lot like the explanations of kelar...except if I wanted to, this I could do. And (thanks to my bell-ringing friend, among other things) none of it is completely new to me.
I'm a middling knitter - I knit stockinette and garter stitch very well, don't ask me to do patterns or increases or decreases...so I've been following those discussions as well, with equal interest and somewhat more understanding.
jjm
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39708 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 03:35 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2758
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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Good for Wolfgang! Long may he flourish. But paeans to German durability are falling flat at the moment, as the Audi dealer told my husband that his Audi--a mere 7 years old--should have all its engine seals replaced, among other things, at truly VAST expense. Aaargh.
Of course seeing us may have had nothing to do with his sudden realisation that he hadn’t locked his car^ . . . but it sure looked like it did. We’re so dangerous.
Ah, the wilds of rural Hampshire, rife with dog-assisted auto thieves . . .
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39729 is a reply to message #39696 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 14:01 |
CathyR
Messages: 577
Registered: July 2009
Location: NW England |
Senior Member |
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| HeiQ wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 03:55 |
I read some comments in the blog posts saying that method ringing is mathematical and uses various permutations and combinations, and that made some sense as I have a math degree.
On a sidenote, I think I read somewhere that you hated maths in school... So how on earth did you end up doing something as mathematical as method ringing of church bells AND handbells?
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I don't see bellringing as being based on maths at all. Rather, it's to do with seeing patterns in the numbers (ie when you have a method like Bob Major written out in rows and columns made up of the number of each bell), and patterns in the shapes of the blue lines (ie the line that each ringer follows). If it were to do with mathematical ability, I would have NO chance.  I know ringers with very visual memories, who can look at the blue line, and see the top/bottom and left/right symmetries of the pattern, and ring it straight away on that basis alone! (That's not me either, unfortunately!)
The only way I understand maths to be involved is calculating the number of rows (unique combinations) of all the bells required in order to complete, say, a full peal. On seven or less bells, this means the bells are rung in 1x2x3x4x5x6x7=5040 unique combinations. Having said that, I've just looked up group theory on Wikipedia, and can see how that would relate to bellringing. Very, very clever people, who compose complicated quarter peals and full peals, and who have brains the size of planets, no doubt use this. But at my level - no maths required, thank goodness!
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39734 is a reply to message #39729 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 14:55 |
mgw1979
Messages: 60
Registered: May 2010 |
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| CathyR wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 14:01 |
I don't see bellringing as being based on maths at all. Rather, it's to do with seeing patterns in the numbers (ie when you have a method like Bob Major written out in rows and columns made up of the number of each bell), and patterns in the shapes of the blue lines (ie the line that each ringer follows). If it were to do with mathematical ability, I would have NO chance.
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Actually, seeing patterns in number *is* math. It's not arithmetic, which is what most people think of when they think of math, but arithmetic is actually only a small (and not the most essential) part of math - like being able to spell is only a small part of writing. I use math for a living, and I can assure you that many - perhaps even most - of the mathematicians I know are pretty bad at arithmetic (just as there are some gifted writers who are dyslexic).
MG
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39736 is a reply to message #39734 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 15:58 |
CathyR
Messages: 577
Registered: July 2009
Location: NW England |
Senior Member |
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| mgw1979 wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 19:55 |
Actually, seeing patterns in number *is* math. It's not arithmetic, which is what most people think of when they think of math, but arithmetic is actually only a small (and not the most essential) part of math - like being able to spell is only a small part of writing. I use math for a living, and I can assure you that many - perhaps even most - of the mathematicians I know are pretty bad at arithmetic (just as there are some gifted writers who are dyslexic).
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Oh, OK, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. Thanks.
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39738 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 16:04 |
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HeiQ
Messages: 78
Registered: February 2011
Location: Canada |
Member |
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| CathyR wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 14:01 |
The only way I understand maths to be involved is calculating the number of rows (unique combinations) of all the bells required in order to complete, say, a full peal. On seven or less bells, this means the bells are rung in 1x2x3x4x5x6x7=5040 unique combinations.
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I read your post and througout the whole thing I was thinking,"But that is EXACTLY what math is!!!" It's just higher level math, way past the arithmetic stage... even the way the symmetries appear in the number patterns is math. It's a type of advanced algebra called group theory, which is all about how certain functions affect collections of things, to put it simply, haha... Bell ringing is math applied to real life in a very excellent way (so excellent that you didn't even realize that you are actually PERFORMING math, literally).
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39742 is a reply to message #39740 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 17:14 |
Aaron
Messages: 319
Registered: June 2009
Location: California |
Senior Member |
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| mgw1979 wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 13:16 |
| HeiQ wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 16:06 |
Good answer mgw1979, by the way... I SO agree that lots of mathematicians are horrible at arithmetic, and that arithmetic is sort of analagous to spelling. Writing is easier if your spelling is good, just as math is usually easier if you have the arithmetic right, but that's not all that's needed.
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Thanks! I have a number theorist friend who complains that other mathematicians expect him to be good at arithmetic - "But I just study number theory, I don't work with actual numbers!"
And calculators/computers have done for mathematicians who are bad at arithmetic what spell-check and voice recognition have done for dyslexic writers.
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Being a mathematician doesn't mean that I can add, it means that I can prove it is possible to do so.
[Updated on: Fri, 25 February 2011 17:31]
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39753 is a reply to message #39688 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 22:05 |
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HeiQ
Messages: 78
Registered: February 2011
Location: Canada |
Member |
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| CathyR said on Fri, 25 February 2011 17:29 |
So being a bellringer doesn't mean I can ring a peal of Bristol Surprise Maximus (a horrendously difficult method) - but it means I could prove it is possible to arrange ten bells to ring in the true pattern known by that name ....?
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Well, a mathematician would be able to prove that it is possible to arrange 10 bells to ring the Bristol Surprise Maximus, and then, on top of that, they would be able to figure out the arrangement line by line... But knowing how to do that doesn't mean that they would know how to actually ring the bells. That's where the bellringers come in!
I've been thinking about bell ringing and the math involved all day (in between the other, slightly more essential things I've been doing), and it is just SO cool. Most of the applications for higher math that I know about are for computer programs and such (which are important, of course), but it's neat that there's such a PHYSICAL application for group theory. The only other one I know is the Rubix Cube. Change and method ringing is so neat. Too bad I'll probably never be close enough to actual bells to ever do it myself.
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| Re: One car, eight bells, and... [message #39759 is a reply to message #39734 ] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 23:01 |
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Black Bear
Messages: 3239
Registered: September 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA |
Senior Member
[Moderator] |
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I was taught back in my museum studies classes about learning styles that music and math use the same parts of the brain. My instant reaction to bell ringing was that it was VERY mathematical, because it's all about timing and patterns.
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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