Home » Discussion Forums » Blog Post Discussion » Big Rant
| Big Rant [message #34803] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 18:57  |
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Big Rant
Smooshes!
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34806 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 19:07  |
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Oh for crying out loud.
I don't suppose there's like doggy mace or anything legal to use if someone crazy person's crazy dog is coming after you. Not that you have the hands to carry something else, but geeze.
There is nothing okay about this situation. I don't understand why people have to be such morons.
Smooshes!
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34810 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 20:04 |
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Okay, to give a bit more detail about my friend's dog - She's a Pomeranian/Jack Russell cross, so NOT a big dog (I think I said Chihuahua/Jack Russell earlier on Twitter, but have just checked and I was wrong...)
My friend's sister and her partner were walking her on Sunday night (and this is in North London, not out in the country) and a pit bull type dog appeared from nowhere and grabbed her by the throat - there was no sign of an owner anywhere. Somehow they managed to get the other dog off, and rushed Piglet to the vet. She had emergency surgery and was kept in over night, and is now home with two drains in her neck to let any infection out.
Apparently the police ARE looking for the dog (and its owner)but whether they'll find them is another matter.
My friend has started a Facebook page, which has photographs of Piglet's injuries - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=159703434057579 - I would advise NOT following the link if you're squeamish/easily upset.
(Just to mention that I DID ask her permission before linking to it)
Don't worry about the dust bunnies, they're just here to guard the treasure.....
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34817 is a reply to message #34811 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 20:25 |
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| Robin wrote on Tue, 05 October 2010 20:07 |
Mace is illegal I know. Dunno about pepper spray or something (especially something you could make up yourself, like vinegar solution) but how likely is it I'm going to be able to handle it at all, let alone accurately? You know how fast dog/any critter fights happen.
It's ABSOLUTELY not all right.
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Yeah, *much too fast* to stop before they happen if the critter is determined. :(
Smooshes!
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34821 is a reply to message #34820 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 20:57 |
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You shouldn't have to spend your plot walks listening for danger. Or any walk, for that matter. These places are supposed to be safe.
And yeah, having adrenaline going all the time is bad for you even if you don't have ME. I can't imagine how much it sucks if you *do*.
Smooshes!
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34829 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 23:26 |
EMoon
Messages: 665
Registered: March 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Our autistic son was afraid of dogs (still isn't much fond of them) and an infuriating number of people said, when asked to call their dog away, "Oh, he needs to get used to it, [dogname] is just trying to be friends." Or "He won't bite, just stand still." Or "Oh, come on--you're not really scared of a dog, are you?"
I used to own dogs (well, one at a time) but haven't in years--I'm still partial to dogs. But I resent the attitude of some dog owners that everyone should love their dear sweet widdle Muzzims who is tall as a pony and has a ridge of upraised fur halfway down its back. Our dogs were kept in a fenced yard and walked on leash. Period.
There've been people killed by loose dogs in my area--one of them a woman about my age, attacked in her own front yard by pit bull crosses that were running loose. The man who owned the dogs expressed no remorse and was not judged guilty of a crime...because the dogs had never attacked anyone before. (So...if I've never shot anyone before, does my first murder not count?) The other was a high school student, taking a walk on her family's land after school; a neighbor's dog pack of Rotties and Dobermans attacked and killed her. (Around here, people do not have pit bulls, Rottys, or Dobies as pets--they have them as either fighting dogs or attack dogs, "for protection.")
What to do...ideally, someone with more time than you have should go scouting for problem dogs with camera in hand. Photograph the problem dogs being problems--starting with off-leash dogs being aggressive. Be conspicuous: if anyone asks, say "There've been a lot of complaints about off-leash dogs attacking other dogs (and livestock, if that's been mentioned), and I'm collecting evidence. So are other volunteers." (Even if only one per town--there are others somewhere so it's not a lie.)
A picture of an aggressive loose dog attacking a dog on leash is worth a thousand polite letters or calls to authorities. Pictures of an injured dog, person, cow, sheep, horse,etc. are also effective. Authorities know it's hopeless unless the specific attacking animal can be identified--ideally its owner as well, but at least the animal. There is always backlash from the Ultimately Entitled dog-owners, but public exposure and concerted pressure should have some good effect.
E
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34831 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Tue, 05 October 2010 23:44 |
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equus_peduus
Messages: 437
Registered: September 2009
Location: France |
Senior Member |
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And then there's the actually-friendly but completely-brainless (or allowed to be brainless) big dogs who belong to owners who don't think they can do anything about it and/or don't see the problem...
Like the client who told me, after her lab almost knocked me over, that her Magsie-poo was a sweetheart and wouldn't ever intentionally hurt anyone, but had actually knocked people over in the yard while playing and she had been worried that she (the owner) would get hurt. And I told her, your dog needs to get some training and learn manners. And she said, she doesn't need manners, she's friendly. And I said, but you just told me you were afraid you'd get hurt by your own dog. And she said, she's friendly and sweet, and she knows how to sit, most of the time, so she doesn't need training and manners!
I gave up. The dog was friendly and sweet, but also had no manners to speak of, and potentially dangerous because it didn't know how to calm down :/ It's one thing when you have this situation in a chihuahua. It's another when it's a 95 pound lab.
ETA: Finally found an article this topic reminded me of that I'd read several months ago by a dog behaviorist: http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/42/70/
[Updated on: Wed, 06 October 2010 01:22]
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34840 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Wed, 06 October 2010 04:16 |
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 Diane in MN
Messages: 2733
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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I don't walk my dog in my neighborhood because of loose dogs--we head for a park, and even then, not just any park: I want a place with sightlines, so I can scout out any potential problems. Teddy is that blessed creature, a two-year-old intact male who likes all dogs and would play with anybody, and I want him to stay that way. We don't have as much of a problem as Robin does, but vigilance is still required.
I would think letters to the local papers might be a good place to start cranking up public awareness. It's really too bad that the caniacs seem to confine their activities to harassing other dog walkers. If they got after the local livestock, the authorities would probably sit up and take notice.
::shakes fist and utters imprecations in sympathy::
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34846 is a reply to message #34832 ] |
Wed, 06 October 2010 09:50 |
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Maren
Messages: 1332
Registered: October 2008
Location: Louisiana |
Senior Member
[Moderator] |
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| librarykat wrote on Tue, 05 October 2010 23:58 |
In my neighborhood, only my next-door neighbor keeps his dog tied up and fenced in. Everyone else lets their dogs run loose everywhere.
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That was the biggest "culture shock" for me here after growing up in the Midwest. (To be clear for people who may not have encountered this: in most cases the owners aren't even with these dogs--they just let them outside with no fence, leash, or supervision.) Luckily in my neighborhood it's usually small dogs who couldn't do much to Lola, but it bothers me a lot because there's a busy highway nearby and one of my dogs from childhood died after climbing over our chainlink fence and being hit by a car while I was trying to catch her. I have taken two loose dogs to the shelter--the first was a Shih Tzu who was reclaimed, but the second was a young male black lab who was not reclaimed but also wasn't put up for adoption, so I suspect I know what happened to him. The next one after that was the female black lab mix (er, probably mixed with pit bull) who I knew would have NO chance at our shelter and whose story I told here a few years ago. Briefly, I was driving her to a shelter in Jackson where she at least wouldn't be immediately put down, but my car broke down near Vicksburg and had to be towed to Jackson. The dog went home with the tow truck driver. 
Anyway, I live just outside the city limits (but still definitely "in town"), so I can't call the city's Animal Control and the parish sheriff's deputies would only come out for a dangerous dog. And the people at the vet's office looked at me strangely when I asked if I needed a license for Lola--unheard of here, apparently. When I took the ill-fated male lab to the shelter, they told me that 75% of the loose dogs they get don't have any tags at all.
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34852 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Wed, 06 October 2010 12:00 |
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I am shocked and appalled by the number of places with no leash laws (or, at least, no enforcement to speak of). My sympathies go out to everyone struggling with this issue. I was stunned a couple of months ago because a neighbor's dog came charging out of the house at Otis and I while we were walking down a village sidewalk. The dog, a big (90lb) hound mutt, apparently has an invisible fence (I hate invisible fences!!!!), so he screeched to a stop just before setting foot on the walk. I have the luxury of a big, calm, gentle but powerful dog at my side, so it takes a serious assault to make my heart race, but this bristling, snarling beast had my stomach in my shoes. The dog was technically on his own property, but if Otis were a different sort of dog, he could have snaked his big long neck out and bitten him with all four feet on the sidewalk. I ranted for days to anyone who would listen, "what if Otis had been aggressive or afraid? A fight between the two of them would have been beyond ugly. (Otis just did his Jedi mind trick staring thing...Bristly actually lowered his head and backed up a step, and we went on our way.) What if I had a small child or a stroller with me?" I ultimately sent the owner a letter. Now if I ever hear about an incident, I can both testify and document that they were warned about the danger of the situation. It's nothing to the trauma of meeting a truly unrestrained dog, but I'm so used to the leash law that it still makes me angry.
On the flip side, I've lately become embroiled in a struggle to preserve the local off-leash dog park. A new parks commissioner has big ambitions for our park and would like to turn it into a venue for triathalons, etc., and it has come to his attention that it might not be entirely safe to encourage runners and cyclists to share space with off-leash dogs. (We already share space with a frisbee golf course, almost entirely without incident, but fast movement is a different kettle of fish, especially for the herding types). Those of us who have been using the park for years and years are up in arms, of course, and one of the arguments made in favor of the dog park is that by dedicating a place for off-leash dogs, it helps to keep them out of other parks and green areas. The dog owners at the dog park don't go there because they have no consideration for other people or no respect for rules, they go to the bother of driving their dogs to the dog park because they want their dogs to run, but they don't want to frighten or annoy people who are minding their own business in the world at large. Of course, owing to the forces of self-selection, the dogs at the park are not the ones who would cause problems anyhow, but it still stinks that we're trying to be good citizens and losing the resouces to make it easy to do so.
[Updated on: Wed, 06 October 2010 12:17] by Moderator
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34886 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Wed, 06 October 2010 22:30 |
Inkwell
Messages: 68
Registered: September 2010
Location: UK |
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What an awful time everyone is having with badly behaved dogs and their badly behaved owners. I'm not a dog owner, and I admit to a little bit of prejudice about dog owners in general, precisely because of incidents I've witnessed of the type described here. Sad to say, but most of the dog owners I know at a personal level - relatives and aquaintances - are the inconsiderate types Robin and others have described. Their behaviour reduces me to inarticulate rage at times. I shouldn't be surprised, because the people concerned tend to behave in similar ways in most other aspects of their lives. I thought about describing a few of my more notable dog/owner stories, but I think I'd only be adding more of the same to the discussion.
I grew up around dogs, mainly the larger breeds, so I tend not to be nervous of them in the way my husband is when they approach us. If they're not obviously aggressive, I let them sniff at me, as another poster described. Only pitbulls, Staffies, Rottweilers, and some badly treated local farm Collies have me nervously checking escape routes. If we had a dog of our own, I doubt we would come out of our encounters as well as we usually do.
Robin, you are absolutely right about the laissez-faire attitude of the police towards attacks by dogs (unless the dog is a banned breed, in which case they become gung-ho). My husband manages the Public Rights of Way (PROW) network for our county, and his team have had battles with the police over certain known problem dogs, or farmers who raise successive generations of problem dogs, which in some case have taken many years and much persistence to resolve through the legal system. It isn't acceptable to have chunks of the network removed from public use in this way.
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34915 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Thu, 07 October 2010 12:21 |
kittee
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2009
Location: Seattle |
Junior Member |
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As the owner of a service dog, I would like to present the other side; people who go postal when they see my big black dog, with his vest and bridge leash on, sitting quietly by my side.
I am a middle-aged professional woman, with a ready smile and good manners, and I have to battle ignorance and hostility every day. Every single day, somebody at the bus stop or on the street corner growls, barks, or makes aggressive hand gestures at my dog. A tweener boy slapped my dog on the face last week and his mom just laughed nervously.
There are cultural and religious prejudices against large black dogs in the East and Far East, and people with this background have screamed at me, one time while I was teaching a class.
I have no defense against this. I just have to put my head down and keep on walking. I am very sorry that there are stupid people who are not responsible for their dogs, just as I'm sorry that there are parents who raise children who are devoid of empathy and drivers who kill people with their cars. Yelling at cars is not done, but somehow it's ok to be rude and mean to a person with a well-behaved dog.
But on topic: I have never encountered a caniac, that sounds just horrible. Everybody needs to take responsibility for their own stuff, and keeping your dogs close IS NOT DIFFICULT. I like the idea of photographing them, and their owners. Shame can be a useful tool in the right hands.
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34920 is a reply to message #34915 ] |
Thu, 07 October 2010 15:25 |
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People yell at you and your dog?! I cannot imagine. As the owner of a (very) big,well-mannered black dog, I'm familiar with the obnoxious teenage boys who attempt the testosterone fueled daredevil move of barking or growling at my big dog (usually from a safe distance), but I've never encountered someone openly hostile and I've especially never encountered anyone foolish enough to strike my dog. I am continually surprised by how many people feel free to reach out and touch Otis as we pass, but I just can't fathom someone who would threaten or accost a service dog and their human. I am so sorry that this happens to you, but this is not culturally acceptable, and I don't know why you would think that you had to tolerate it. I'd be on the phone with the police in a heartbeat.
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34947 is a reply to message #34803 ] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 00:25 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
Senior Member |
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Talking of big dogs - there was this utterly adorable, charming big white dog living on the ground floor in our house (the family have since moved, sadly.) He (I don't know really, but I just hate calling animals "it") was really friendly - but in a very restrained, civilised manner. He'd come up to you and greet you graciously - "So pleased to meet you - lovely day, isn't it? Oh, look, some more charming people I have to greet - pray, excouse me." He never made sudden movements - which make me nervous (not necessarily because I'm frightened of the dog - it annoys me when people think I'm frightened when I'm not - but because of my poor eyesight I have really great difficulty following quick movement - if I want to pet a dog and I don't know where his head is going to be any given moment, it startles me - also, of course, I don't want to poke them in the eye!) - he just seemed so... happy. In a very grown-up manner. There was a photo of him (or someone exactly like him) on the door. I loved looking at it as I stood waiting for the lift (elevator), it always put me in a cheerful mood. I quite miss it. (Sigh.)
(Oh, and when I mean big - I mean really, really big, bigger than an alsatian for instance. He looked quite wolfish - except white - with a great fluffy tail. I just love great fluffy tails! They are so elegant!)
(Sorry about this - just feeling chatty, apparently...)
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Big Rant [message #34957 is a reply to message #34950 ] |
Fri, 08 October 2010 06:49 |
rachel
Messages: 65
Registered: November 2008 |
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YOu might be interested in this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/08/fear-of-d ogs-muslims
To quote from it
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Well, it started in childhood. Growing up in a Muslim household, I was told dogs were dirty – their saliva was unclean and the angels would not visit any house with a dog for that reason. When I saw any on the streets, I either froze with fear or ran in terror. When I was at school in the 80s, I associated dogs with skinheads; round where we lived, the racists delighted in unleashing their alsatians whenever they saw brown-skinned boys like me. Dogs may have been man's best friend, but they were an Asian's worst enemy.
Twenty-five years on and dogs can still provoke extreme reactions. "The worst reaction is from Hassidic Jews and African Muslim women," says Glazebrook. "Walking with a bulldog, it sometimes feels like I am waving a knife around. One time I saw three teachers swoop and push 20 Asian school children up against a wall while they waited for Cookie – who was on a lead and ignoring the fracas – walk past them.""
As with "but he just wants to be friendly", the cultural backgrounds and expectations of people may be very very different. After all, why should anyone like dogs?
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This is so frustrating and frightening. Yuck! I hope you can connect with some other responsible dog owners, preferably of the "take on the world" variety. It's ridiculous that you have to worry about this so much. Poor hellhounds.
