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| Draggy Monday [message #34088] |
Mon, 13 September 2010 20:01  |
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 Black Bear
Messages: 3216
Registered: September 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA |
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It's a draggy Monday.
"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34093 is a reply to message #34088 ] |
Mon, 13 September 2010 20:29  |
b_twin_1
Messages: 2597
Registered: September 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia |
Senior Member
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bell ringing is an incredibly labour-intensive sport/art/science, and you need an entire band to drag one learner on.
Yes. It's hard being a beginner in a tower half-full of "emerging-from-beginnerhoods" ... :s And I greatly appreciate all the patient ringers putting up with the Learning Call Change sessions and the Treble to Plain Hunt sessions. Now, if only I could *count* my place.... *wince*
I might try doing that weird thing again—what’s it called?—going to bed early.
*snork*
I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel ~ Blackadder
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34097 is a reply to message #34094 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 01:13 |
EMoon
Messages: 665
Registered: March 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Yeah...at least you know a Friday the 13th has a weekend beyond it. Monday the 13th sort of sets the tone for the week.
I gave up on mine and watched the extended DVD of Return of the King because I desperately needed three particular scenes to get me out of a Grand Funk. The hot, humid day was redolent of "things undone that we ought to have done." Like for instance words on the new book, and a thorough cleaning of the kitchen floor, and vacuuming all the bits of onion skin off the hall carpet, and getting more of the clutter (nicer word that squalid mess of papers and books and magazines and so on) off the living room floor.)
The three scenes had a beneficial effect, and I managed to get a major soup going and then clean up after the prep work, though the kitchen floor is still, um, not satisfactory. The top of the stove is clean; the front of the stove not so much. And the screw that holds on the handle of the oven is going to require my disassembling the oven door to get at it and tighten it. I find this scary, given the construction and the fact that someday I simply must turn the dial all the way to "self clean" and let the oven lock itself down, turn itself to some godawful heat, and burn up its collection of spatters and stains. What if I've messed that up?
E
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34098 is a reply to message #34097 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 01:18 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
Senior Member |
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| EMoon wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 07:13 |
Yeah...at least you know a Friday the 13th has a weekend beyond it. Monday the 13th sort of sets the tone for the week.
I gave up on mine and watched the extended DVD of Return of the King because I desperately needed three particular scenes to get me out of a Grand Funk.
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The three scenes had a beneficial effect, and I managed to get a major soup going and then clean up after the prep work, though the kitchen floor is still, um, not satisfactory.
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Oh, oh, oh - what three scenes? Do tell - please, please, please - you don't want curiosity to kill the cat-owned human do you? (Stares expectantly - this seems to work for Sassi...)
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34101 is a reply to message #34088 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 03:21 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2733
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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For variety however we were attacked by a pair of on lead dogs. So charming. Beagles, and the woman holding them . . . couldn’t. They dragged her across the pavement, barking and snarling
Smallish dogs are very strong. People who can't control them should not attempt to walk two at once. I'd like to think that this woman apologized to you but I'll be evilly judgmental and bet that she didn't. Kudos, by the way, to Doranna Durgin: she is exactly right, and good for her.
I like the idea that someone who tortures people for a living rescues battery chickens in his spare time.
He has to do something about his karma, right? 
And the fluey thing, which was this morning resentfully slinking away has come skulking back again like a burglar, testing to see if the anaesthesia left any doors open. I might try doing that weird thing again—what’s it called?—going to bed early.
Jennifer Ackerman, who has written a book about the common cold called Ah-choo!, was on Fresh Air tonight and said that research showed that while getting a good chill does not make you more likely to get a cold (and I do not believe this, based on consistent personal experience with bad sinuses), lack of sleep does set you up for disease. Lack of about *seven hours* of sleep a night. I hate this. But I hope you got to bed early, got over the anesthesia, and have shaken off any flu lurking in your vicinity.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34109 is a reply to message #34093 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 09:40 |
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Robin
Messages: 6007
Registered: September 2008
Location: England |
Senior Member
[Hellgoddess] |
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You learn to count your place by *counting your place.* One of our beginners last night was complaining that it was ONE MORE THING TO REMEMBER. Well . . . yes. But it's an ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL thing. Every *good* ringer I know (possibly bar the superconductor/genius level ones, whose BRAINS work differently and who know where EVERYBODY is ALL THE TIME) COUNTS THEIR PLACES. And you need to start doing it before you NEED to do it, because by the time you need to it'll be kind of too late. So stop counting the BELLS you're following ('over the two, the four, the five, the three . . . ') and start counting your PLACES: seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths, fifths, fourths. . . .
End of lecture. It's just I've now been ringing long enough to have seen a few promising beginners really screw themselves by NOT starting to count their places SOON ENOUGH. The remedial is a LOT worse than just doing it in the first place.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34114 is a reply to message #34088 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 10:34 |
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equus_peduus
Messages: 437
Registered: September 2009
Location: France |
Senior Member |
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So on the dog front...
Seems to me the three or four times I've been to France, at least in the cities, there are off-lead (mostly intact) dogs all over the place, and except for the occasional puppy, they follow their person (sometimes very closely, sometimes at a bit of a distance), never look at anyone else, and it's *very hard* to get their attention (something I attempted on my first trip, in high school, before I knew any better). I never saw (other than the puppy) any interactions between two dogs that didn't know each other, or between a dog and a human other than what was apparently their own.
How do the urban French achieve this state? Is it just that I didn't see enough of them that I am under the impression that the dogs don't bother each other or people (other than the occasional deposit on the sidewalk)?
There's also the other side of the leash thing - don't let your dog run loose, because you don't know if the dog on the leash is unfriendly. One of our techs has a dog that she's afraid to take for walks, not because she thinks she's going to get attacked, but because her dog is very leash aggressive (especially to other dogs, not as much to humans), and there are too many loose-walked dogs in her neighborhood to chance injury to the other dog, to her dog, and to herself (who would be holding the leash).
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34118 is a reply to message #34088 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 15:49 |
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gah... dentists are always an ordeal.
but I found this on youtube (while procrastinating of course) and I'm still laughing from it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIzPF3BfpQ
(this isn't what I posted on twitter, but it's just as funny and also shorter)
"they say that absence makes the heart grow fungus".
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34120 is a reply to message #34109 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 16:34 |
b_twin_1
Messages: 2597
Registered: September 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia |
Senior Member
[Moderator] |
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| Robin wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 09:40 |
You learn to count your place by *counting your place.* One of our beginners last night was complaining that it was ONE MORE THING TO REMEMBER. Well . . . yes. But it's an ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL thing. Every *good* ringer I know (possibly bar the superconductor/genius level ones, whose BRAINS work differently and who know where EVERYBODY is ALL THE TIME) COUNTS THEIR PLACES. And you need to start doing it before you NEED to do it, because by the time you need to it'll be kind of too late. So stop counting the BELLS you're following ('over the two, the four, the five, the three . . . ') and start counting your PLACES: seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths, fifths, fourths. . . .
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I know!!! I have to learn this.... but I get myself confuddled counting my sheep. I'm too easily distracted/knocked off course when I count - and then I skip....  "53, 54, 56, 57..." ugh. (Nothing like having to count sheep three times to make sure the count is 197 not 198.... arrrggghhh)
But I will do it. *Must do it.*
[Updated on: Tue, 14 September 2010 16:35]
I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel ~ Blackadder
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 Re: Draggy Monday [message #34121 is a reply to message #34114 ] |
Tue, 14 September 2010 17:10 |
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| equus_peduus wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 10:34 |
How do the urban French achieve this state? Is it just that I didn't see enough of them that I am under the impression that the dogs don't bother each other or people (other than the occasional deposit on the sidewalk)?
There's also the other side of the leash thing - don't let your dog run loose, because you don't know if the dog on the leash is unfriendly. One of our techs has a dog that she's afraid to take for walks, not because she thinks she's going to get attacked, but because her dog is very leash aggressive (especially to other dogs, not as much to humans), and there are too many loose-walked dogs in her neighborhood to chance injury to the other dog, to her dog, and to herself (who would be holding the leash).
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Speaking from my own experience, off-leash dogs tend to be much more comfortable around one another than on-leash dogs and dogs in a busy urban setting seem to be much less reactive to everything. When I walk Otis through busy places, on-leash (urban) or off (beach), he shows a marked change in behavior. On-leash he can pass another dog on the sidewalk with nothing but a glance, off-leash he does a creditable imitation of a close-heeling obedience champion. Quieter settings would yield much more dashing and mooching about off-leash, excited staring and sniffing while on. I suspect he's just overwhelmed by the crowd and too distracted to focus on any one element as novel or concerning.
While I'm comfortable with Otis meeting other seemingly reasonable dogs off-leash (He's big, fast, and socially appropriate. Danger to him doesn't exactly loom large in my imagination), I never allow him to approach leashed dogs when he is off-leash himself. The potential for the other dog to feel overwhelmed and get defensive is just too high. I also very, very seldom allow him to approach other dogs while leashed himself (same issue, times two because they're both nervous). On the odd occasions when we have been charged by off-lead dogs in areas where I couldn't release Otis -dogs off-lead in unsafe areas never seem to be friendly- I am very fortunate in that the force seems to be strong in my dog...he fixes them with the Jedi-mind-trick-stare and they always seem to see the error of their ways before coming to blows. I must say that it adds to one's confidence tremendously.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34136 is a reply to message #34133 ] |
Wed, 15 September 2010 04:12 |
CathyR
Messages: 575
Registered: July 2009
Location: NW England |
Senior Member |
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| b_twin_1 wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 06:13 |
| Robin wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 19:03 |
Think of how much easier it is to count to six or eight or ten than it is to count to 198! See! EASY!!!!
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*weak laughter*
It will start getting interesting when I start skipping numbers and forgeting what I am up to... "surprise" methods and all that! LOL
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Interesting is certainly one way to describe it!  All the changes in direction - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th ... - and then doing an abrupt about turn in the middle of it all - 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th,.... Aaargh!!!
Just out of interest, have you found this bellringing discussion forum? http://bellringers.net/mailman/listinfo/ringing-chat_bellrin gers.net
Or this one, which tends to be a lot more high powered and often discusses complexities of bellringing that you'd need a PhD in the subject to understand: http://bellringers.net/mailman/listinfo/change-ringers_bellr ingers.org
There has been some really very interesting stuff on both of these (if you search the archives for the past couple of months or so) about learning and teaching ringing.
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34138 is a reply to message #34137 ] |
Wed, 15 September 2010 05:21 |
CathyR
Messages: 575
Registered: July 2009
Location: NW England |
Senior Member |
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| AJLR wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 10:06 |
Interesting, yes, but it's obviously mostly a group of people who know each other - and are rude to each other!
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Yes, I'm not at all sure that I'd dip a toe in with any sort of comment! Still, some good stuff in there amongst it all.
I'd never heard of "black zone" ringers before; apparently this term was coined by someone in Southdowner's neck of the woods and I've not been able to find anything more about it. Seems to relate to the colour of ski runs - I assume black runs are the hardest? I'm definitely a very gentle slope ringer, I reckon - not sure what colour that would be!
(edited for correct terminology - black zone, not black run)
[Updated on: Wed, 15 September 2010 06:56]
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34142 is a reply to message #34136 ] |
Wed, 15 September 2010 07:56 |
b_twin_1
Messages: 2597
Registered: September 2008
Location: Victoria, Australia |
Senior Member
[Moderator] |
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| CathyR wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 04:12 |
| b_twin_1 wrote on Wed, 15 September 2010 06:13 |
| Robin wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 19:03 |
Think of how much easier it is to count to six or eight or ten than it is to count to 198! See! EASY!!!!
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*weak laughter*
It will start getting interesting when I start skipping numbers and forgeting what I am up to... "surprise" methods and all that! LOL
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Interesting is certainly one way to describe it! All the changes in direction - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th, 5th, 6th ... - and then doing an abrupt about turn in the middle of it all - 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th,.... Aaargh!!!
Just out of interest, have you found this bellringing discussion forum? http://bellringers.net/mailman/listinfo/ringing-chat_bellrin gers.net
Or this one, which tends to be a lot more high powered and often discusses complexities of bellringing that you'd need a PhD in the subject to understand: http://bellringers.net/mailman/listinfo/change-ringers_bellr ingers.org
There has been some really very interesting stuff on both of these (if you search the archives for the past couple of months or so) about learning and teaching ringing.
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No, I hadn't seen those.... might have to leave investigating them until after some major work stuff in the next few weeks. But, thanks.
I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel ~ Blackadder
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34151 is a reply to message #34114 ] |
Wed, 15 September 2010 12:28 |
Jeanne Marie
Messages: 320
Registered: October 2008
Location: Kansas City |
Senior Member |
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| equus_peduus wrote on Tue, 14 September 2010 09:34 |
So on the dog front...
There's also the other side of the leash thing - don't let your dog run loose, because you don't know if the dog on the leash is unfriendly. One of our techs has a dog that she's afraid to take for walks, not because she thinks she's going to get attacked, but because her dog is very leash aggressive (especially to other dogs, not as much to humans), and there are too many loose-walked dogs in her neighborhood to chance injury to the other dog, to her dog, and to herself (who would be holding the leash).
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Yes, I have this issue. Charlie is pretty leash aggressive, and despite our attempts to train out of it, it's been made EXPONENTIALLY WORSE by all the unleashed strays in our neighborhood trying to attack/sniff/suck up to him or to Cece. I finally had to give up walks in the neighborhood because of the strays, and then had to give up walks on the lake path because of the problems with unleashed dogs. Now, we walk on a little used lake roadway, between the shelter houses, and hope for the best.
JM
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34192 is a reply to message #34098 ] |
Thu, 16 September 2010 13:16 |
EMoon
Messages: 665
Registered: March 2009 |
Senior Member |
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What three scenes? It turned out to be more.
The beacons lighting...I go all tight-chested at that one. When I first saw it in the theater, a breathless sort of sound went up from the audience as the fire passed from mountain to mountain, "Yess....!"
The Rohirrim riding out. I'm not fond of "that sort" most of the time. The drinking, carousing, foot-stomping, loud crowds of men, individually losing their wits in a cloud of testosterone. Living with the Rohirrim at peace would be tedious--you'd want them to go out hunting quite often and stay away several nights at a time. I've known many of their equivalents. And yet...and yet...in their right place (on a horse, with a sword, facing danger) they're magnificent. (The horses help. On a truck just doesn't work as well. And firearms--the kind we have now--are butt-ugly.)
Just before the Rohirrim engage the enemy, Theoden's ride along the front, his sword touching the spears of the first rank. That was, I was told, Bernard Hill's improvisation, not in the script, and they left it in because it is so obviously the right thing, a gesture that does what nothing else could have done.
And Aragorn before the Black Gates. "The day may come... ...but not this day!" I remember all those years ago, when I first read the books (and re-read them instantly, to the disadvantage of the courses I was taking) how the language rang, how it made obviously the sleazy Wormtongue/Saruman-like utterances of politicians.
Other scenes stick too, of course. Gandalf riding for Gondor (it's hard to go wrong with a white horse galloping across scenic country, in terms of meeting my criteria for good movie scenes. The more galloping horses, of any color, running across beautiful/striking scenery, the better. Posing on the crest of a hill works, too.)
Haunting, heartbreaking, the doomed charge of Faramir and his men while Pippin sings and Denethor chomps his food and drools.
Comic relief: Merry and Pippin lounging on the rocks, smoking and drinking and eating.
Theoden and Eowyn...any of their scenes together, and especially the last. The nuances of their relationship were acted brilliantly.
E
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| Re: Draggy Monday [message #34221 is a reply to message #34192 ] |
Fri, 17 September 2010 07:17 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
Senior Member |
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Oh, yes! Just reading your descriptions of those scenes does something to me - I forget how many times I've watched those, and rewinded and seen them again and again... I love them! And the music... it's magnificent. And the scenes are just so... beautiful. I was not the type to have posters in my room as a girl, but I could understand why someone would want posters of these... you can pause almost anywhere, and it's like a painting...
I really should do a rewatch soon - I haven't for some time. Maybe after I finish my rewatch of Babylon 5?
(Well, I did have one poster of the Indian actress Hema Malini, who was my favourite at the time:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050225/images/25etc6hema.jpg
It wasn't this picture, but it was something similar, and she was wearing a gorgeous sari.)
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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Re: Draggy Monday