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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50708 is a reply to message #50704 ] |
Thu, 12 July 2012 22:00   |
 skating librarian
Messages: 571
Registered: October 2008
Location: Vermont |
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Ever since I had a German Shepard bite me in the leg while cycling I've wondered, is it legal/smart to carry a water pistol, squirt bottle, whatever, to give an attacking dog something else to think about while giving one time enough to get away? I remember the old country solution to a dog fight was to fling a bucket of water at them, but I never actually heard that it worked.
With all the dog experts reading this, surely someone can set me straight. I should have reacted to the charging shepherd by stopping, I dare say, except that the owners kept yelling "she's friendly" and I was going up a steep hill and didn't want to lose momentum ... which I didn't, as once I felt the dog on my leg, the adrenaline gave me quite a boost.
So Robin, I understand the frustration 100%. I sometimes think the owners should have to pass a test on canine behavior and care before they can get a license to own a dog. Grump!
"Winning a war is like winning an earthquake" Jeanette Rankin
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50709 is a reply to message #50708 ] |
Thu, 12 July 2012 22:28 |
EMoon
Messages: 665
Registered: March 2009 |
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Hard to believe there isn't any kind of law that requires dogs to be leashed or owners to be in absolute control, though loose dogs are a problem even in communities where such regulations exist. Owners of breeds that really need a lot of socialization seem most likely to say "But Pansy is so sweet--our whole family loves her--[victim] must have done something..."
Everything remotely useful I can think of would be impossible while managing two hellhound leashes (a portable bullhorn through which you could easily reach even a distant owner's ears and maybe intimidate the charging dog, for instance.) It's a very nasty situation and I can only hope the idiot moves far away (I have other hopes, but they involve his bodily injury in detail, so I'll refrain from sharing them.)
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50714 is a reply to message #50704 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 05:32 |
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Catherine
Messages: 196
Registered: July 2012
Location: Windsor, England |
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Oh, how dreadful! Pleased that neither you nor hellhounds came to any harm but, in a nice world of sensible people, things like that just shouldn't happen. Jerkface clearly needs to be whacked upside the head with the flexi-lead he isn't using. Sadly, though, he probably is convinced he and his monster did nothing wrong and that your (sensible) exit of the situation is what provoked the monster.
Certainly that's the line I got from the teenage boy who was out with three off-lead lurchers who decided to chase my Chihuahua in hunting pack formation (they came from nearly the opposite side of the field, too). 'It's your dogs fault for running away' Um, excuse me, but she's tiny and those evil beasts cut her off when she tried to get back to me, her only option was away. Thankfully, and at the time I nearly fainted from relief, she didn't run into any roads or get caught (yes, Chihuahua out-ran lurchers) and I found her, terrified but essentially safe under a shrub where they couldn't reach her. And yes, I had been letting her run off-lead, but Chloe is trained, clicking the clasp of her lead is enough to get her to come back to me. We practised that for months before I let her off-lead in non-enclosed spaces and I'm still (now extra) cautious about where I choose to let her have a run.
Unfortunately that wasn't her only run-in with idiot-boy and his monsters. I'd passed the news of the incident on to her dog-nanny and asked that she not take Chloe to that particular park anymore. Except she did. And the lurchers were there. And this time they caught her. I am so perversely grateful that they'd taught the dogs to illegally terrorise the local rabbits by catching and releasing them. Because I still feel sick with horror at the thought of what could have happened to Chloe if they hadn't. As it happened they caught her and brought her back to the boy where they dropped her at his feet and when Chloe got up to run back to the dog-nanny he let his dogs catch her and bring her back to him again all the while laughing because apparently his dogs hunting a Chihuahua was funny. And I'm still carrying around a lot of rage about that.
Chloe, bless her, came out of it with three puncture wounds on her neck and no worse physical damage but her confidence has never been the same. She's still friendly and makes friends with other dogs, but much more shy and wary so the process takes longer. And she's still terrified of lurcher-shaped dogs and needs to be carried past any, no matter how placid and controlled they are. The dog-nanny got sacked. All this was two years ago.
Anyway, I truly sympathise with the untrained off-lead problem, and the bigger problem of irresponsible people who don't know how to manage their dogs. I know dogs and children aren't the same, but there are parallels, and you wouldn't let your toddler terrorise another toddler like that, so why let your dog? Manners are important, whether you have two legs or four.
Cath
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50715 is a reply to message #50704 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 10:28 |
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*SEETHS*
I don't have a dog, but if I did, Other People's Dogs would scare me so much.
While visiting my mom last month, I went with her to take her poodle on walks. The area she lives in allows only small dogs, so all the dogs we met were little and they were all leashed, but I couldn't help but think of the stories you've told about Other People's Dogs. *shudder*
Smooshes!
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50716 is a reply to message #50704 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 11:21 |
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equus_peduus
Messages: 437
Registered: September 2009
Location: France |
Senior Member |
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Oh, I could tell you stories of how some of the dog-bite-wound patients have come into the hospitals I've worked at. But I won't. Suffice to say that this is a problem pretty much everywhere... and so incredibly frustrating. Because not only are these untrained menaces dangerous to people and other dogs - they're often dangerous to their own families, their families' friends, AND they're typically not happy because (in general) dogs need a certain amount of discipline (rules) to know what's expected of them, and dogs who know what's expected of them are happier than dogs who are constantly confused because of mixed signals and no rules. And most of the time, if you try to get these people to train their dogs... they always have excuses (oh, he's not trainable... oh, we tried, but it didn't work... isn't the choke chain enough?... oh, he's too old to learn anything... oh, it's too much work... we don't have the time... it's not really necessary anyway...).
Further, you occasionally run into a semi-responsible dangerous-dog owner, who keeps their menace on leash... but then you have the semi-responsible non-dangerous-dog owners who let THEIR dogs off leash, try to make friends with the dangerous dog... equally bad outcome (even worse if the dangerous dog is leash aggressive on top of generally being dangerous).
And a lot of the time, if a dog gets declared dangerous in court, and has restrictions on its activity placed... the owners don't follow them, because it'll make Foofoo unhappy to not be able to escape its yard, or to have to wear a muzzle in public...
GAH.
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50721 is a reply to message #50717 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 21:11 |
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shalea
Messages: 781
Registered: October 2008
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, ... |
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| Maren wrote on Fri, 13 July 2012 11:47 |
| skating librarian wrote on Thu, 12 July 2012 22:00 |
Ever since I had a German Shepard bite me in the leg while cycling I've wondered, is it legal/smart to carry a water pistol, squirt bottle, whatever, to give an attacking dog something else to think about while giving one time enough to get away?
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I think that would be perfectly legal anywhere, but I'm not sure if a thin stream of water would even faze a large dog in chase mode. There are purpose-made dog repellant sprays on the market--some are pepper spray (which may not be legal everywhere) and some are citronella. I have considered getting one to protect my own dog but from the reviews it sounds like they're only effective some of the time, and it's easy to end up spraying yourself or your own dog by accident.
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I carry the citronella dog repellant stuff myself and have used it on three separate occasions:
1. The little terrier was the best outcome -- I wasn't sure how serious she was but she was outside alone and I didn't want her either trailing behind us or nipping at our heels, and the spray made her retreat into her own yard.
2. The very friendly, lost dog would NOT be deterred from following us home and trying to get close. It was lucky he was a very good-natured dog, because he made Gryphon VERY uneasy and Gryphon kept trying to warn him off.
3. The big intact territorial bully kept his distance for just long enough for his owner to retrieve him. Which is a good thing, because I really think that encounter would have ended badly.
That all said, it doesn't seem to hurt the dogs I've sprayed with it - seems mostly to be a deterrent because of the sharp citrus - so I'm not worried about any repercussions of spraying myself or my dog.
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50722 is a reply to message #50714 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 21:49 |
EMoon
Messages: 665
Registered: March 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Cath, that is absolutely horrible! Sadistic owner, uncontrolled dogs. (And very stupid dog-minder after you'd told the dog-minder not to take Chloe there!!) There needs to be a way to train owners like that--cite them and get them into treatment.
I have a friend in another state whose well-trained, well-behaved champion dog was attacked at a dog show by a dog that yanked its leash loose from someone--severely bitten--and the stupid dog show officials (and the Kennel Club later, to whom my friend wrote citing the lack of response from show personnel) did not one damn thing. No repercussions to the owner of the attacking dog, no apology from the owner of the attacking dog (let alone an offer to pay the vet bill), nothing. The argument was "Your dog must have done something." Yeah, from 20 yards away? And the dog was just standing beside his owner. My friend was injured in trying to get the attacking dog off hers. Her dog had been attacked before; he's not aggressive; he's now so hyper about other dogs that it affects him in agility trials (though he loves agility--and was miserable when sidelined with an injury.)
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50732 is a reply to message #50728 ] |
Sat, 14 July 2012 13:42 |
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Catherine
Messages: 196
Registered: July 2012
Location: Windsor, England |
Senior Member |
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I read these this morning, cuddling in bed with Chloe, and just... thank you. It makes it a little better knowing we have such awesome people on our side.
| EMoon wrote on Sat, 14 July 2012 02:49 |
Cath, that is absolutely horrible! Sadistic owner, uncontrolled dogs. (And very stupid dog-minder after you'd told the dog-minder not to take Chloe there!!) There needs to be a way to train owners like that--cite them and get them into treatment.
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He's a highly sadistic owner, and generally unpleasant individual as most of the village knows. Yes, train them not to let hunting dogs loose in a public park, never mind that coursing hares is illegal. I did file a police report but the boy who'd been out with the dogs is the son of the local travellers chieftan and the police don't like to deal with the travellers. (Although they are otherwise brilliant.)
| equus_peduus wrote on Sat, 14 July 2012 03:27 |
And the story about Chloe... I have no words. I think it's perfectly understandable to still be feeling rage about it, two years later. Lucky she wasn't hurt worse.
People should have to pass an exam in order to be allowed to have a dog (and everyone in the family that's old enough to read should too). Also, not all dog trainers are necessarily very good at what they do (not even getting into the style of training they do)... they should have to be licensed too.
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We're so lucky, and I always tell her how lucky I am to have her in my life. I do agree people should have to demonstrate responsibility in ownership to have their dog. Chloe's breeder grilled me before she agreed to even let me meet the puppies and I really respected her as a responsible breeder for it. And she knew Chloe was going to a good home. A friend and I used to say there should be a 'good citizen' award or something for well-behaved dogs and the levels you've earned dictate what you can do with your dog and where you can take it. The better behaved your dog is the more doors open for it. I take Chloe about 90% of places I go and her good behaviour means she's welcome in them.
| Diane in MN wrote on Sat, 14 July 2012 07:18 |
This story makes me so angry. Your Chloe is a brave little girl, to still be friendly with other bigger dogs. Good for her.
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Chloe says thank you. I don't force her to meet any dog she's decided to freeze up at when she sees them and I carry her past, but if she's just being shy and hiding behind me I encourage her to say hello. I don't want to ever make her feel un-safe but I want to keep her socialised and not let her fear take over.
Cath
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50743 is a reply to message #50733 ] |
Sat, 14 July 2012 23:47 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2733
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
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| danceswithpahis wrote on Sat, 14 July 2012 14:00 |
Reading all of this helps confirm my decision not to have dogs. I love them, and have some "niece/nephew puppies" that belong to friends, but I know I don't have a lifestyle right now that would allow me to train and socialize a dog properly, and I don't want to have a half-trained dog.
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You know, I've been thinking about this, and the problem Cath had isn't that those lurchers weren't trained and socialized. They were obviously highly trained, because they went after what they were allowed to chase and brought it back relatively unharmed. If Chloe had been chased and caught by a pack of untrained dogs, the consequences would probably have been much worse, because the dogs would have been undisciplined and the prey drive would have entirely taken over. The owner is the one that needs training and socialization in this situation.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50769 is a reply to message #50704 ] |
Mon, 16 July 2012 12:58 |
skating librarian
Messages: 571
Registered: October 2008
Location: Vermont |
Senior Member |
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Thanks guys for the info ... I'll check with the pet store to see if they have the citronella, maybe it could keep the 'skeeters away too.
Tho at the moment (with temps in the 90's and serious humidity) I will be in the kayak, where I've never had problems with any critters except the mosquitoes and other flying biters. And now and then, skinny dippers who provided bit of a surprise ... I may have surprised them too.
Again, thanks!
"Winning a war is like winning an earthquake" Jeanette Rankin
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| Re: Other People's Dogs [message #50822 is a reply to message #50772 ] |
Fri, 20 July 2012 00:47 |
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danceswithpahis
Messages: 380
Registered: October 2008 |
Senior Member |
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| ReginaB wrote on Mon, 16 July 2012 19:06 |
You could try a little older dog. They would have a milder disposition and depending on where you got them from would be trained and socialized. It also would depend on the breed. Dogs aren't for everyone though, so I think if you aren't in the place for one, it's best to give it a pass for a while.
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Yes, I think I'd rather wait until I'm not living alone anymore (alone as in humans, I mean; the cats are plenty of company). I'm often out for 12 hours a day just for work, not to mention other activities, so I don't feel like I could give a dog what it needs. Perhaps in the future....
"Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!"
-- Lilo ("Lilo and Stitch")
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I shall have to meet some of my neighbours and practice my french to get my doggie fix 