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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48315 is a reply to message #48311 ] |
Mon, 13 February 2012 00:02   |
EMoon
Messages: 664
Registered: March 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Given that I've read more recent (quite contemporary) crime novels in which both racist and sexist terms are bandied about with glee, along with the full range of cusswords...I don't see why the fuss about "language" in older books. The day may come when a male character referring to a female character (present or not) as a cow, a c*nt, a b*tch, ho, etc. is considered a blot on the author rather than on the sort of person the character is intended to represent and someone may want to edit those out and have the rampant macho man say his girlfriend is just too annoying. Blech. I don't like male supremacy stories, but if writing about these kinds of people, show them as they are. Bowdlerization is bad, is my stance. (BTW, anyone here read Keri Hulme's The Bone People? Incredible book. A book I would consider a great book, though in some places almost unbearably painful to read. Full of Language in the sense in which elderly women in my childhood used the word (You know we do not allow Language in this house!), and for once it's absolutely necessary to the story.)
(I find the substitution of "slave" for the forbidden N-oun in Twain to be particularly ironic, since Texas's textbook commission pressured textbook writers to "tone down" the correct term "slave trade" to "triangle trade" (what it was in my schooldays) as if to pretend that sugarcane, cotton, rice, and rum had nothing to do with slavery.)
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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48320 is a reply to message #48311 ] |
Mon, 13 February 2012 02:29 |
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 Diane in MN
Messages: 2729
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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I once had a T-shirt with the legend "There's something in my library to offend everyone," which pretty much expresses how I feel about bowdlerization as well as censorship. Adults should be able to read fiction and recognize that a character is not the author, that social commonplaces change over time, and that the world of the past can be as alien to us as anything in science fiction or fantasy. Kids learn to do this by reading and asking questions. Schools should be in the business of answering those questions, not modifying texts in order to prevent them being asked.
when I haven’t put myself back an hour I needed for SHADOWS by inadvertently starting to reread GLASS SIDED which I had responsibly pulled off the shelf merely to check the original pub date
Yes, well, your husband writes books that do this. I picked up THE KIN one night--a night before I had to get up rather earlier than I usually do--and was awake until 3:00 a.m. reading it. I should have known better.  And for anyone who hasn't read them, the Pibble mysteries and Peter's other not-exactly-mysteries for adults are EMINENTLY worth finding.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48328 is a reply to message #48320 ] |
Mon, 13 February 2012 13:28 |
elizabeth
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2011 |
Junior Member |
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| Diane in MN wrote on Mon, 13 February 2012 01:29 |
Adults should be able to read fiction and recognize that a character is not the author, that social commonplaces change over time, and that the world of the past can be as alien to us as anything in science fiction or fantasy. Kids learn to do this by reading and asking questions. Schools should be in the business of answering those questions, not modifying texts in order to prevent them being asked.
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I would say that schools should also be in the business of teaching kids how to ask good questions. If we can teach kids to read critically, look at the context of the author as well as within the book, and to discuss the issues they find (including asking questions of teacher and classmates, listening to and evaluating responses), we will have a generation of readers that can tackle emotionally charged issues cooperatively. A good skill, that.
On an entirely different note: having never read a Peter Dickinson book*, I suspect I will shortly read as many as I can get my hands on (descriptions from blog and comments are extremely intriguing!) I think I'd like to start with a young adult fantasy - any recommendations?
* a little embarrassed to admit that in this venue, I'll admit
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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48341 is a reply to message #48332 ] |
Tue, 14 February 2012 03:29 |
CathyR
Messages: 574
Registered: July 2009
Location: NW England |
Senior Member |
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| Mrs Redboots wrote on Mon, 13 February 2012 20:26 |
What gets up my nose is when people complain of the attitudes or actions of characters in books written 50-70 years ago, as if the author should share our values! We may find things strange, but it was normal back then - why not accept that "The past is another country; they do things differently there!" rather than whinging..... gets up my nose good and proper!
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Couldn't agree more! And as others have said here, those very attitudes and actions can (and should?) be the subject of discussion and debate to increase the reader's understanding.
And as for an introduction to Peter Dickinson's work - the Fire and Water short story collections are brilliant; his stories therein are (so far) the only works of his that I've read.
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.
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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48344 is a reply to message #48311 ] |
Tue, 14 February 2012 08:19 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1080
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
Senior Member |
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Instead of being just horrified that things were "worse back then" - shouldn't we also be pleased that things have actually changed? Wouldn't it be a depressing thing if there had been no progress? Also, I won't go into my feelings about retconning history - I'm too tired and sick, and can't think straight. But in short, were we are today is because of what went before - and knowing that is, in my opinion, utterly vital. Quite apart from the "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it"-part.
As for Peter Dickinson - my favourite book of his growing up was "The Blue Hawk" (and would I love to get my paws on a copy now! - is there any chance of a reprint?) - and of the books I've read lately, "The Ropemaker" - highly recommended!
[Updated on: Tue, 14 February 2012 08:19]
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Peter Dickinson [message #48410 is a reply to message #48397 ] |
Fri, 17 February 2012 00:18 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2729
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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THE KIN is YA and very good.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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