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It was going to be about a garden [message #38170] Sun, 09 January 2011 19:02 Go to next message
jmeadows  is currently offline jmeadows
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It was going to be about a garden


Smooshes!
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38171 is a reply to message #38170 ] Sun, 09 January 2011 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Black Bear  is currently offline Black Bear
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My first Jonathan Carroll was Outside the Dog Museum, which--like nearly all his books--has a Very Important Dog in it. I had always pictured that dog as a bulldog, not a bull terrier. Now I wonder if I read it wrong!

Carroll's one of my absolute favorite authors--in good company with someone else I could mention. Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 09 January 2011 19:56]


"The time is always right to do what's right."--MLK Jr.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38172 is a reply to message #38171 ] Sun, 09 January 2011 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kristin  is currently offline Kristin
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I hope that we'll still get something about a garden. I think that the Japanese have an expression that during the winter that snow is the flower in the garden. There are still fabulous underlying shapes, especially when you are dealing with a Japanese garden like the one at the Missouri Botanical Gardens in St. Louis.

I personally felt the tension throughout PEGASUS and I worried about Sylvi's wonderful family for almost the entire book. But it was a comparatively quiet book with no resoluton. I would have been quite peeved if I hadn't been able to reach for THE TWO TOWERS after finishing THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. Talk about ending with disaster.

<<Reviewers need to learn the difference between this book did not work for me and this book eats discarded zombie parts. It is your right not to like something. It is flaming insufferable arrogance to assume that because you didn’t like it it’s not a good book.>>

I'll have to put this on a bulletin board above my desk. I've been collecting positive and negative reviews this fall on my decidedly unliterary YA mystery. I try to tell myself that not every book is for every person, but it has more oomph coming from an experienced pro.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38173 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Diane in MN  is currently offline Diane in MN
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Nice review!

But remember I need to keep eating. Cutting PEGASUS into two books means I get paid twice.

SNORK! At least you can reflect on this when PEG II is being particularly uncooperative. Smile

Although I’ve bought not a few books based on someone’s rave review(s) and, having felt that I read some other book than the one they were talking about, gone back later to reread the original review and had my I Am From Another Planet reaction.

Too true. After a while, you can get a sense of which person/what organization you find pretty reliable, but anonymous or unsourced reviews are a tossup at best.



"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38174 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EMoon
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Reviews...I have spent 20+ years not growing the thick skin it's said you must grow. I don't read them, or hardly ever. Editor sent me one last week which she said was "mostly favorable" but which to me was one slice after another. (The favorable bits go right past me; the negative bits, however small, are shrapnel in the heart.) This one wasn't bad, really, she says, trying to pretend she's not barefoot on broken glass. I've had much worse. And it's not bleeding that much.

I am very much the same way about the story...it exists already and I'm just writing it. Sometimes it hides under the couch, or wants to play silly games with me, but if I can hold the focus (in spite of everything else going on and my own undisciplined mind) it's there, as it is, and no amount of "Why don't you just...?" or "Shouldn't you do this other...?" or "Change this!" works. That's *their* story, not *my* story...the story that came to me and tickled the inside of my head, and then poked me in the ribs and finally grabbed something painful and twisted and said "Write me. Write me NOW."

God knows I would like to be a better writer. More like A in handling this, more like B in handling that, and OMG how does C do that thing C does, that rips my heart out even on a fifth reading? I read better writers than I am, I read them silently and aloud, hoping the magic will rub off, but my stories are stuck with me, the imperfect. Like the kid in the corner of the studio with Michelangelo, struggling to outline just one acanthus leaf on a scrap of stone, and watching with wondering eyes the David emerge from marble...I will never be there...but at least I'm trying to serve my story, as it came to me and wanted to be told.

Which sounds all gooey or something but it's how it seems...the stories wait for me, a row of them, ever more shadowy and vague the longer it will be before I get to them, but they exist on their own...alone until I can write them and let them find their readers.


E
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38175 is a reply to message #38174 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kristin  is currently offline Kristin
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[quote title=EMoon wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 01:57]<<I am very much the same way about the story...it exists already and I'm just writing it.>>

I'm much more of an engineer creatively speaking. I get the orginal idea and then try to make it go. My stories don't exist until I somehow get them onto the page. But even I let my characters talk to each other--despite how gooey that may sound. And I've discovered just how stubborn they can be. And when I undertake major revisions for an editor, it does sometimes feels like I'm in an alternate universe with the road not previously taken.

So there's A difference between genius and determined craftsman.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38178 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guest
But . . . I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Reviewers need to learn the difference between this book did not work for me and this book eats discarded zombie parts. It is your right not to like something. It is flaming insufferable arrogance to assume that because you didn’t like it it’s not a good book.

Yes! Yes! Yes! This is a phenomenon not at all limited to fiction reviews. The inability or unwillingness to tell the difference between personal preference and objective assessment is a becoming a cultural crisis. It's something that I struggle against with my students, many of whom are learning to distinguish criticism (Herodotus is unreliable because he fabricates evidence...) from unsupported personal opinion (I feel like Herodotus is a big stinking jerk and a liar...) for the first time as college freshmen. The vast majority of my students are really terrific young people, who try very hard, but it's a difficult habit to break, made harder by the fact that the public role of private opinion has exploded in the last twenty years.

There's nothing inherently wrong with TV pundits or Twitter feeds, but I can't help but feel that objective analysis and discourse, as a skill, is getting buried under an avalanche of snarky, inflammatory rhetoric wherein 'my side is right and your side is stupid'. Snarky, inflammatory rhetoric is nothing new, of course, it just seems to be much more broadly in the public domain than it used to be. It's also taking place less in face-to-face settings and more in anonymous electronic exchanges where it's easy to fall into a pattern of hurtful and combative one-upsmanship. Considering how much emphasis is placed on making private opinion accessible in public, troublingly few freshmen come into my class able to formulate and defend a logical argument. However, they all seem to have learned how to wield a cutting hyperbole or a nasty adjective to bolster their viewpoint. This despite the fact that they are, almost without exception, kind, friendly, and respectful people.

The flip side is a problem, too. There is a difference between being served a nourishing meal that one doesn't care for and being served a plate of rancid meat and rotten vegetables. If reviews of anything are going to carry any weight at all, people need the skills to distinguish between the personally objectionable and the objectively offensive. Letting people know that something is rotten, if it is, is a public service, but just saying that something sucks dead bears without explanation or evidence doesn't help anyone, because it doesn't actually tell you anything, it just throws useless negative energy out into the world. Whew! Sorry. Rant over.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 January 2011 13:50] by Moderator

Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38179 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Julia  is currently offline Julia
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Quote:

under the subject line ‘awesome frelling pegasi’

That is just fantastic. Nice review, too.

And I can't wait to see garden photos!

As for "Keep Calm and Carry On"...
Saw this poster while in London over the summer... if I could have brought it back with me, I would have.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38180 is a reply to message #38171 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Angelia  is currently offline Angelia
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Black Bear wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 18:56

My first Jonathan Carroll was Outside the Dog Museum, which--like nearly all his books--has a Very Important Dog in it. I had always pictured that dog as a bulldog, not a bull terrier. Now I wonder if I read it wrong!

Carroll's one of my absolute favorite authors--in good company with someone else I could mention. Smile


I'm with you, Carroll is one of my favorites! His Facebook entries are cool, too. (I don't do Twitter.)
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38186 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PamAdams  is currently offline PamAdams
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Okay, that's a much better bull terrier than on my original copy, which had weird skinny BT caricatures.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38193 is a reply to message #38170 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
southdowner  is currently offline southdowner
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~ Crumbs! Check out the cover on this reissue!! (Southdowner! This means YOU!) ... I may have to buy it again. Never much liked the old mass-market cover. And I wish to point out (she says stiffly) this is not buying a book for its cover. I already have the book. This is just buying the cover.

Ooohh! I've never heard of Jonathan Carroll but I'm ordering off Amazon NOW!!! lol. Buying this for the book AND the cover Smile
...and I'm biased, you know I am, but bullies don't just have great heads,their legs are pretty amusing too Razz




Someone says "pie" and we all go on alert, like meercats. "Pie? Where?" - Blackbear
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38195 is a reply to message #38178 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marjie35  is currently offline marjie35
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stormgoddess wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 13:43

[color=deeppink]...I can't help but feel that objective analysis and discourse, as a skill, is getting buried under an avalanche of snarky, inflammatory rhetoric wherein 'my side is right and your side is stupid'.


I think that this aspect is the one that stops me from talking more publicly about the books I enjoy reading. Someone always seems to find it necessary to not just let me know that they didn't care for the book, but that they found the author to be the worst writer ever -- complete with the hyperbole of how their eyes will never recover. Now, I've read The Eye of Argon, so I know the author isn't the worst ever, but the effect is that I am somehow deficient for having enjoyed the book in the first place. This never has the effect of changing my mind about the book; I know perfectly well that I can enjoy a book by a decent storyteller who could use some improvement as a writer. I just end up enjoying the books on my own, but no longer telling the world at large about them. Of course, I do tell my friends about the ones I like, but I don't put it 'out there' as I did before.
Re: It was going to be about a garden [message #38196 is a reply to message #38193 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 01:22 Go to previous message
Diane in MN  is currently offline Diane in MN
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Great pictures! Don't they look like little angels, sleeping cheek to cheek . . . Very Happy



"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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