Home » Discussion Forums » Blog Post Discussion » Voice
| Voice [message #2120] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 20:22  |
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Voice
Smooshes!
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| Re: Voice [message #2121 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 20:43  |
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*faints*
You've made my hour. I love it when you talk about writing. Do it some more! More more more!!!
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Generally speaking as a reader I dislike books that swap from first person to third to omniscient chapter by chapter or whatever.
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I'm still getting used to that as an option. I don't think I'd read anything that did that until Elizabeth Bear's HAMMERED back in...whenever it was published. Now it pops up a lot in my life. It kind of boggles me, but I don't feel strongly about it one way or another. I'd say I don't think I would try it, but that's a dangerous thing to say, as my backbrain takes that sort of thing as a challenge. Urgh.
My peeve is lots of points of view, actually, even in third, which is why your books have always worked for me. (Though now I can think of some places where you changed POVs some - SPINDLE'S END... - and it didn't bother me, but it's likely because of the voice. *ponder* Yes, I think I more felt like I was floating like a balloon around the characters, watching and peeking into their heads, rather than shoved inside them. The changes didn't jar me out of someone's head. I drifted over to someone else, instead.) I don't like having to reground myself in someone's head when I've just gotten used to the other character. And by golly, I liked sitting in their head. Take me back now.
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But as I think about it, trying to write it down for you here, I can tell you there’s more individuality in that first sentence’s presentation than mere words on a page: there’s a, well, a tone of voice. Beauty of BEAUTY would say ‘Good night, Beast’ in a completely different voice than Beauty of ROSE DAUGHTER would.
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Yes! Well, they're two different Beauties. This is all making perfect sense. I'm sitting here nodding so hard, my head's about to fall off.
I could go on and on and on (have I mentioned how much I love when you talk about writing?), but I should stop here before I turn into a raving madwoman. *flail*
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 20:45]
Smooshes!
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| Re: Voice [message #2128 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 21:11 |
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Seconding the yay talk about writing!
I don't consider myself any sort of writer, but I've always had a really good mental ear for writing voices. I know how what I write sounds, this little voice in my head telling me as I type it. Of course, the irritating bit is that my little mental voice picks up dialects REALLY fast. When I'm reading something in a forsoothy dialect (or Shakespeare, as I've been doing recently), my brain starts TALKING in it. Same if I've been talking to people with distinct accents (especially UK or Aussie or Southern).
It's been really neat seeing your voice change from book to book, both because of the way the book wants to be written and because of how you've matured as a writer. Plus getting to hear your informal voice on the blog is a really neat contrast too. ^^
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| Re: Voice [message #2129 is a reply to message #2128 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 21:16 |
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| Mori-neko wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 21:11 |
Plus getting to hear your informal voice on the blog is a really neat contrast too. ^^
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Yes! I like seeing how the blog voice matches with the book voices. And how it doesn't.
And sometimes it seems to me that -- after hanging out at the blog so long and getting to know Robin's voice here -- she's reading the story to me. Only with fewer asterisks and exclamation points. (Is that weird, Robin? Sorry. It happens with all my friends, whenever I read their stuff. Unless their writing voice and their regular *them* voice is totally different. Totally not meant to be weird.)
Smooshes!
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| Re: Voice [message #2134 is a reply to message #2128 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 23:19 |
 Maya
Messages: 30
Registered: October 2008
Location: Michigan |
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| Mori-neko wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 21:11 |
Seconding the yay talk about writing!
I don't consider myself any sort of writer, but I've always had a really good mental ear for writing voices. I know how what I write sounds, this little voice in my head telling me as I type it. Of course, the irritating bit is that my little mental voice picks up dialects REALLY fast. When I'm reading something in a forsoothy dialect (or Shakespeare, as I've been doing recently), my brain starts TALKING in it. Same if I've been talking to people with distinct accents (especially UK or Aussie or Southern).
^^
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Fourthing/fifthing/sixthing....? I hope the continuation comes soon!
Mori-neko, I wonder if this is a common thing-- it happens to me too, although maybe not so quickly. It worries me when I write, because I want to write my stories in my own voice, and not Robin McKinley's/Tamora Pierce's/whomever I'm reading lately's voice. Luckily if I keep writing my own voice comes back before too long.
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OUTLAWS is a bit different. It doesn’t stay in Robin’s voice for long, there’s Marian and . . . er^ . . .
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But mostly Robin and er, as I recall. Yes? (Taking the book down from my shelf and checking would be too easy-- and dangerous, with an exam coming up.)
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| Re: Voice [message #2135 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 23:30 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
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Oh, this is so interesting, entertaining, thilling, enlightening and thought-provoking! Can you tell that I liked it?  I'm looking forward to part two!
I don't write first person, really (well, except for my diary, but that isn't exactly fiction). I've only done it twice, both times for English-class in school and the topics were not of my choosing. The first time was a story called 'The Pets' - and why the narrator turned out to be a nasty, pet-hating man and why I told it in first-person I don't really know - except that that was how it "came to me" (to quote you, but it so exactly describes it!). I enjoyed writing it tremendously, and it was fun to discover that not only could I write in first-person, but also that I could write it from the perspective of someone who so manifestly wasn't me. (Pet-hating?)
The second was a topic given at the end of a very long, very important test. The topics given to choose from were 'My day as' snd then various professions. I stared at the page in horror and consternation; this was "so not me"! What could I possibly come up with - I thought the topics were so excruciatingly boring! And then I was struck with an idea for 'My day as a substitute teacher' and I started to write at an insane pace - but the time ran out before I had time to finish it. When I got it back my teacher had written several exclamation marks at the end where it abruptly left off in the middle of a sentence. I completed it many, many years later - in probably exactly the same words I would have used had I had the time to finish - they were so clear in my head, and the only reason I waited years to write them down was simply my usual habit of procrastination.
And though I say it who shouldn't - they are quite good, and funny. (But at the time I had a fresh brain which I could use to think - always an advantage I have found...)
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Voice [message #2136 is a reply to message #2126 ] |
Fri, 24 October 2008 23:43 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
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| Susan from Athens wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 03:06 |
| Maureen E wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 04:01 |
Incidentally, the phrase "writing Forsoothly" reminded me of Josephine Tey's wonderful The Daughter of Time.
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Another lovely book! Which I have also praised on Polyanna's List. Whenever I am in London I go to the National Portrait Gallery, look at that portrait of Richard III and think, no, I don't believe that man could have killed his nephews.
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Really? You too?
I did a history project about The War of the Roses (and I don't care if the term was invented by Sir Walter Scott - I like it! - thanks Sir Walter!) and read a few books on the subject and one of them was a biography of Richard III - and although the author (who was very fair) leaned towards thinking him guilty, it just didn't make sense to me - it didn't fit. I can't remember if I read "The Daughter of Time" (lovely book! I absolutely agree) before or after and haven't checked (I write down the names of the books I've read on a list, so I could) - so I don't know if I was biassed by it, but in a sense I don't care. The subject is so old and affects no living person - so why can't I believe whatever I like?
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Voice [message #2147 is a reply to message #2121 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 02:56 |
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| jmeadows wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 01:43 |
*faints*
You've made my hour. I love it when you talk about writing. Do it some more! More more more!!!
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Over here, waving! Yes, I totally agree, Jodi; I'm waiting with happy anticipation for part two...
So I was surprised to find that I loved “First Flight” even more. I think you’ve developed a whole new voice recently - not that you’ve lost the old one, because I’d say CHALICE is written in the voice I associate with you traditionally. I don’t have the critical language for this, but it’s as if with DRAGONHAVEN you experimented with a more colloquial voice
I'm just reading Dragonhaven for the first time and it reminds me at times of Sunshine, but also there are moments when it resonates with your blog voice; and this makes me see you as more separate from the books than I did pre blog when you were the (shadowy) "author" - the manner of expression and of experiencing events may be related, but the dividing line between person and narrator has much greater clarity thanks to the blog. Hopefully this is helping solve some of those author/reader issues you mention occasionally? Maybe not
Jake didn’t start to make sense to me till I was writing ‘I’. Once I was inside his skin and going ‘oh yes I know’ about his generally rather wired approach to life I knew where I was. I was telling a story about a, well, about a friend.
I think that one of the aspects I most love about your writing is the pleasure that you have in the company of your characters, the friendship and "positivity" which shine out of all your books (even Deerskin)
.... and after meeting Damar I too wanted more, but each time you've written in first voice I've adored the result, so now I really really want ALBION to stop being noisy and get itself (him? herself??) onto paper! And have I told you how much I absolutely am delighting in Dragonhaven?
and I gazillionth Josephine Tey's Daughter of Time which I have loved for nearly 40 years. History = facts? Nah! It's all open to opinion and revision 
Someone says "pie" and we all go on alert, like meercats. "Pie? Where?" - Blackbear
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| Re: Voice [message #2148 is a reply to message #2121 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 03:14 |
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danceswithpahis
Messages: 380
Registered: October 2008 |
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| jmeadows wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 20:43 |
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Generally speaking as a reader I dislike books that swap from first person to third to omniscient chapter by chapter or whatever.
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I'm still getting used to that as an option. I don't think I'd read anything that did that until Elizabeth Bear's HAMMERED back in...whenever it was published. Now it pops up a lot in my life. It kind of boggles me, but I don't feel strongly about it one way or another. I'd say I don't think I would try it, but that's a dangerous thing to say, as my backbrain takes that sort of thing as a challenge. Urgh.
My peeve is lots of points of view, actually, even in third, which is why your books have always worked for me. (Though now I can think of some places where you changed POVs some - SPINDLE'S END... - and it didn't bother me, but it's likely because of the voice.
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Yes, once I started noticing this sort of thing, I got really irritated by it. I've seen authors who do this effortlessly, so that I never notice that they switch perspectives (even if the voices of the two characters are entirely different) unless I reread the books multiple times. There are others who are slightly less skilled (or perhaps I'm paying attention a bit more) and I notice it, but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the story. Many times, however, it distracts from the book a lot (especially with a newer writer who hasn't yet figured out that it is normally not a good plan to switch p.o.v. every other paragraph or so unless you really know what you're doing; talk about getting thrown out of the story...).
The other disadvantage of this (sorry, I'm tired and on a roll, can't stop now) is when the author has successfully created different voices for their various characters, but you only like some of those voices. I know there are many books that I've read where the author will have each chapter switch to the perspective of a different character, often using characters who are on different quests (or different parts of their world on separate parts of the main quest). I often find that there will be one or two story lines that I find most interesting, and it's difficult not to skip around and ignore the other story lines. Plus when you change locations like that, it sort of ends up feeling like you're wandering around your house and picking up a new book in each room, reading a few snatches of it, then putting it down and moving on. Just when your brain has gotten into the swing of one character/adventure, you end up somewhere else.
Okay, end of rant now.
"Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!"
-- Lilo ("Lilo and Stitch")
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 Re: Voice [message #2149 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 07:18 |
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Lucy Coats
Messages: 223
Registered: October 2008
Location: Northamptonshire, UK |
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There may be writers out there who are brilliant, incisive and in control from their first ‘Once upon a time’.†† I’m not one of them. Every once upon a time for me is another experience of white-water rafting in a leaky inner tube
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Do you know (no, how could you?!) how amazingly, wonderfully reassuring this is? I mean reassuring that someone who has written so many novels still gets the white-water rafting bit. For me it's more of a roller-coaster with side excursions, but same feeling, I guess. I never know where I am going and HATE when the publisher/editor/sales team insists on a nice tidy synopsis with an ENDING. How do I know what the ending will be until I get there? Do you know your endings from the beginning? I'd love it if you told us, if you don't mind, that is.
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...which is always how it feels, or anyway always how it feels when it feels right–that I began to get comfortable with it, to hear it properly, to hear it well enough to write it down.
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As for voices--I am increasingly convinced that writerdom is a sort of polite schizophrenia. When the characters are talking back to me (and arguing that they don't want to do this or that, and I can go s***w myself, because they're going to go THIS way--and then that means I've got to go back five chapters and change a whole lot of stuff) I find it is NOT an experience I can discuss with just anyone, because they start to look at me funny and back away making crossed finger signs. All I do know is that like you, when I can 'hear' my primary character and he or she starts snarking at me, it's going to be a good book. I know this is not a forum for 'other writers' but I would just like to say thank you, Robin. As you well know, it's a solitary activity sitting in front of a computer making things up for people to read (and hoping that they WILL read them--and that the publisher will promote them) and it's very comforting to know I'm not alone out there. I shall now shut up.
Lucy xx
"'Thou shalt not' might reach the head, but it takes 'Once upon a time' to reach the heart."
http://www.scribblecitycentral.blogspot.com
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| Re: Voice [message #2151 is a reply to message #2149 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 08:59 |
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Katherine
Messages: 72
Registered: October 2008
Location: Michigan, The States |
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| Lucy Coats wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 07:18 |
When the characters are talking back to me (and arguing that they don't want to do this or that, and I can go s***w myself, because they're going to go THIS way--and then that means I've got to go back five chapters and change a whole lot of stuff) I find it is NOT an experience I can discuss with just anyone, because they start to look at me funny and back away making crossed finger signs.
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Yes, precisely. I love trying to explain this to people who don't write, or maybe who don't write like *I* write. Their faces are fun to watch. They think you can make your characters do whatever you want them to because they're not real and come from your head. But I couldn't write them if they weren't real and telling me their story.
One of my main characters started fighting with me right off the bat. I'd already planned a large chunk of her story--I knew her name, what she did for a living, where she was at in life, etc. And as soon as I started writing her, she started arguing about her name. She did not WANT to be called whatever it was I'd decided. She thought it was a stupid name, but I insisted. So then she decided that she wanted to be dead, and have the whole thing told posthumously. When I said, "No, we are not Lovely Bones," she said, "Fine, then I want to be a straight-up ghost!" "IT'S NOT THAT KIND OF STORY!" I screamed. I finally talked her out of anything paranormal by letting her choose her own name--like she wanted to in the first place. It was much easier to tell the story after that because I was finally telling HER story.
Characters are people, too. 
Every day for the next year, I'm taking and posting at least one picture. Stop by and take a look!
http://project365lummox.blogspot.com
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| Re: Voice [message #2163 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 13:03 |
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DrummerWench
Messages: 4
Registered: October 2008
Location: Babylon of the West |
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Well, no need to spend a bunch of words agreeing with all of the above of the above, except that I umpteenth the Yay! about writing about writing*.
My thoughts veered off in the direction of 1st person POV, and how, fairly recently--in just the past few years, I've encountered comments by people who hate, hate, hate 1st. To the point they just won't read something** written in 1st. Which puzzles me no end. To me, it was always just another POV--tighter and with its own set of problems, but hey!, good writing is good writing.
On Forsoothly of various flavors. Robin's good*** at maintaining whatever level of Forsoothly or Colloquiality the story the story demands, and she does it right. I get so annoyed when the Forsoothness jumps around, and is sometimes just plain incorrect. See, I grew up with the King James Bible, so I have a pretty good instinct for that kind of language.
Voice. I so, so appreciate writers who can deliver consistent, different voices with their different POVs. What a gift!
* You all got that, right?
** Fiction, not journals. Though maybe they won't even read memoirs...
*** Very good
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| Re: Voice [message #2164 is a reply to message #2163 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 13:21 |
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AJLR
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| DrummerWench wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 18:03 |
I've encountered comments by people who hate, hate, hate 1st. To the point they just won't read something** written in 1st. Which puzzles me no end. To me, it was always just another POV--tighter and with its own set of problems, but hey!, good writing is good writing.
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Yes, my husband is one of those who will rarely, if ever, read something written in the first person. We've discussed it many times - he knows he misses out on some good writing - but he maintains that it's too immediate a feeling of involvement, plus he wants story-at-a-distance rather than being inside someone's head. I don't agree with this, on several fronts, but hey, that's how he feels about it and feelings are facts.
I tend most to enjoy a story from the viewpoint of one, maybe two, characters. Any more than that and it begins to feel to me more like a collection of short stories rather than one whole work.
It's fascinating, Robin, hearing how you work with these different approaches and characters in your head. Thank you.
"Never let a computer know you're in a hurry."
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| Re: Voice [message #2167 is a reply to message #2164 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 13:56 |
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| AJLR wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 13:21 |
Yes, my husband is one of those who will rarely, if ever, read something written in the first person.
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I've heard from many people that first person seems easier to write, but it's harder to do first person well.
If that is true (and I'm not saying one way or another!), then it's easy to understand why suffering lots of mediocre first person would put someone off it.
I don't particularly mind reading first or third person - both are useful - but my writing instinct usually makes stories come in third, regardless of whether I'm going to venture into other points of view. First person is always a shock for me (when I write it), mostly because I'm firmly *stuck* in that. There's no drifting out of that head, not even a little for some exposition. I find it very limiting to write in (but, like Robin said, sometimes you don't get a choice, so you deal), but I still enjoy reading it.
(The voice in my head? The one that narrates my own actions (doesn't everyone have that? like practice?) talks about me in third person. Or maybe it's talking about somebody else who happens to be doing whatever I'm doing. I just really like third person.)
Smooshes!
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| Re: Voice [message #2169 is a reply to message #2167 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 14:25 |
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| jmeadows wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 13:56 |
(The voice in my head? The one that narrates my own actions (doesn't everyone have that? like practice?) talks about me in third person. Or maybe it's talking about somebody else who happens to be doing whatever I'm doing. I just really like third person.)
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The voice in my head is only sometimes a voice. More often it's a series of images (sometimes still, sometimes moving).
The interesting thing is that I dream in third person. Sort of an omniscient floating entity watching everything. Sometimes I'm also there in first person, which is kind of weird... this divided unconsciousness thing...
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| Re: Voice [message #2172 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 15:41 |
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I loved this post! I so love talking shop! And reading about voice is perfect for me just now. I have two novels going, both with very different voices, and I just don't know which one to work on.
I'm interested that Beauty happened when Damar was overwhelming you. I have a place/people/novel that is trying to eat my head. I don't know what to do with it, but I like it, and want to finish it. So I turned to the other novel, and it feels so fresh and bright--first person POV, but I can write 1st pov--and I wonder if I should finish it first.
Sorry I'm writing about myself. I love your take on voice, it sounds exactly right to me, both in your books and the discussion about voice. You do voice so beautifully, and I know how hard it is to do, at least until it settles inside you and you can't write any other way. How it all pours out of your head...
I love that feeling, when the voice comes suddenly, and you're writing as fast as you can to keep up. Thank you for reminding me of that.
"And by the way you look fantastic in your boots of Chinese plastic."
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| Re: Voice [message #2175 is a reply to message #2136 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 15:51 |
Megan
Messages: 57
Registered: October 2008 |
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| L.R.K. wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 23:43 |
| Susan from Athens wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 03:06 |
| Maureen E wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 04:01 |
Incidentally, the phrase "writing Forsoothly" reminded me of Josephine Tey's wonderful The Daughter of Time.
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Another lovely book! Which I have also praised on Polyanna's List. Whenever I am in London I go to the National Portrait Gallery, look at that portrait of Richard III and think, no, I don't believe that man could have killed his nephews.
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Really? You too? . . .
I can't remember if I read "The Daughter of Time" (lovely book! I absolutely agree) before or after and haven't checked (I write down the names of the books I've read on a list, so I could) - so I don't know if I was biassed by it, but in a sense I don't care. The subject is so old and affects no living person - so why can't I believe whatever I like?
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Huh, I'm not the only one. I wrote a research paper arguing Richard III's innocence, though I dearly love the Shakespeare's representation. He's so deliciously manipulative.
I love all the voices in Robin's books. It makes incredibly challenging to choose favorites, but she's never messed up a voice for me. Occasionally authors drift too far from their style, and I struggle to finish their a books. Robin's variety just means I have more characters to enjoy.
However, all these hints about upcoming books is nearly too much to bear. It's too tempting
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| Re: Voice [message #2245 is a reply to message #2151 ] |
Sat, 25 October 2008 22:50 |
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Melissa Mead
Messages: 991
Registered: October 2008
Location: Albany, NY, USA |
Senior Member |
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| Katherine wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 08:59 |
| Lucy Coats wrote on Sat, 25 October 2008 07:18 |
When the characters are talking back to me (and arguing that they don't want to do this or that, and I can go s***w myself, because they're going to go THIS way--and then that means I've got to go back five chapters and change a whole lot of stuff) I find it is NOT an experience I can discuss with just anyone, because they start to look at me funny and back away making crossed finger signs.
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Yes, precisely. I love trying to explain this to people who don't write, or maybe who don't write like *I* write. Their faces are fun to watch. They think you can make your characters do whatever you want them to because they're not real and come from your head. But I couldn't write them if they weren't real and telling me their story.
One of my main characters started fighting with me right off the bat. I'd already planned a large chunk of her story--I knew her name, what she did for a living, where she was at in life, etc. And as soon as I started writing her, she started arguing about her name. She did not WANT to be called whatever it was I'd decided. She thought it was a stupid name, but I insisted. So then she decided that she wanted to be dead, and have the whole thing told posthumously. When I said, "No, we are not Lovely Bones," she said, "Fine, then I want to be a straight-up ghost!" "IT'S NOT THAT KIND OF STORY!" I screamed. I finally talked her out of anything paranormal by letting her choose her own name--like she wanted to in the first place. It was much easier to tell the story after that because I was finally telling HER story.
Characters are people, too.
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YES! My husband, who's all kinds of wonderful but doesn't write, gets concerned when I say "I was going to do so-and-so, but Character X said such-and-such." He reminds me, as though he's afraid that I'm having a psychotic break, that I'm making the characters up, and I'm the one telling them what to do. If I tell him they took the story off in a fascinating new direction, he gets all concerned.
(He's starting to get the idea now that he's into video-making, though. I envy his sense of pacing.)
Member of Carpe Libris: http://carpelibris.wordpress.com/
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| Re: Voice [message #2286 is a reply to message #2126 ] |
Sun, 26 October 2008 03:05 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2731
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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| Susan from Athens wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 20:06 |
Whenever I am in London I go to the National Portrait Gallery, look at that portrait of Richard III and think, no, I don't believe that man could have killed his nephews.
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John M. Ford's THE DRAGON WAITING is a very good alternate-history treatment of Richard. Kendall's biography of Richard is sympathetic. I myself don't think he did it, based on available evidence, but I still like Shakespeare's play. Like MACBETH, it's really about power and tyranny over and above the historical grounding.
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Voice [message #2287 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sun, 26 October 2008 03:21 |
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L.R.K.
Messages: 1081
Registered: October 2008
Location: Sweden |
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I've got both of those books on my reading-list. And also Sharon Penman's "The Sunne in Splendour" - I'm looking forward to reading all three.
I haven't seen Shakespeare's "Richard III" yet - well, I've seen "Looking for Richard", so I know a little how it is. When I do, though, I mean to view Richard as a purely fictional character and enjoy the play as a work of fiction.
There's a bit about Richard in Terry Jones' Medieval Lives - which I have taped but not yet seen, except what I happened to see before I managed to tear myself away. (I'm really looking forward to it - it looks like so much fun!) The episode about kings and it was all about how history can be changed and facts suppressed...If someone has seen the whole episode, perhaps they can explain better what it was about .
Why, I feel all thin, sort of stretched, if you know what I mean, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.
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| Re: Voice [message #2288 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sun, 26 October 2008 03:41 |
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Diane in MN
Messages: 2731
Registered: October 2008
Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA |
Senior Member |
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Jake is the ‘colloquial’ voice and CHALICE is back to Traditional Modern Sub-Forsoothly–as is PEGASUS, although ALBION will be colloquial again, which is to say first person, which appears to be the dividing line for me, which is perhaps a tale for another time.
I was going to say that it all started with SUNSHINE, that colloquial voice, but really it began with BEAUTY.
Yes, when I read SUNSHINE I was struck by the voice shift and thought that, given how well you write in first person, you ought to do it more often. I don't know whether it's the result of the colloquial voice or the first-person perspective--or neither, having entirely to do with pacing--but there seems to me more immediacy in these books than in your third-person narratives. "Once upon a time" is a distancing device. I've just finished CHALICE--which I liked very much; thank you!--and the contrast with SUNSHINE and DRAGONHAVEN is not entirely owing to the TMS-F voice.
This is a very interesting post--thanks for sharing your thoughts.
[Updated on: Sun, 26 October 2008 03:42]
"The point of books is to have way too many but to always feel you never have enough . . . " Louise Erdrich
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| Re: Voice [message #2340 is a reply to message #2122 ] |
Sun, 26 October 2008 15:19 |
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| Susan from Athens wrote on Fri, 24 October 2008 20:47 |
This is really fascinating. Because as I've just read Chalice *thank you, thank you* I was thinking that although with Dragonhaven there was something of the Robin-on-the-blog voice I recognised in Jake's contemporary voice, I didn't pick that up in Chalice at all.
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Yes. When I read Dragonhaven it was just after I found the blog and I picked up very much on the Robin-ness of the voice. I have to disagree, however, about Chalice. Maybe not the Robin-blogging voice but what Mirasol was saying seemed very Robin-ish to me. The things about honey, and the constant claiming that she has no idea what she's doing, and especially when she asked them to light candles for her. Very Robin things to say, I thought.
Re: POV - has anyone ever written a book in Second Person? You hear so much about 1st and 3rd, and I've always been curious to read something in 2nd person but I've yet to find anything written that way... I really enjoy reading books that incorporate letters as a means of showing different 1st person perspectives in a narrative that is largely 3rd person.
"The center of every man's existence is a dream. Death, disease, insanity, are merely material accidents, like a toothache or a twisted ankle. That these brutal forces always besiege and often capture the citadel does not prove that they are the citadel."
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| Re: Voice [message #2341 is a reply to message #2120 ] |
Sun, 26 October 2008 15:34 |
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Less Than Zero by Brett Easton Ellis was in second person, and he pulled it off quite well. I've read many stories written in 2nd POV, some worked, some didn't. I know there are more books out there, but am spacing their names.
2nd person reads as a slightly dissociative 1st person, imho.
"And by the way you look fantastic in your boots of Chinese plastic."
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